Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1041  Postby Emergence » Jun 12, 2010 8:14 am

Macdoc wrote:
Now it won't work on a Tshirt at least in this decade so could we see a static version with the ball a miniature earth ala Sagan's small blue dot....


I think i overdid it a bit and the main concept ended up looking more like a poster, than mug or tee designs. But here is our Pale blue dot:

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(^^ Click to see a version with different font.)

Though i have to say, that i am not quite sure about the symbolism of earth riding along a Möbius strip... :think:
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1042  Postby stijndeloose » Jun 12, 2010 8:22 am

Neither am I, but as a poster/bumper sticker it'd look beautiful! :thumbup:
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1043  Postby Aern Rakesh » Jun 12, 2010 10:35 am

I think that is stunning, Emergence! Truly stunning.

I can't decide what font looks better, but perhaps the tall skinny one is more effective in balancing the design? (On the other hand I might just be used to it by now.)

I've just been looking up the symbolism of the Möbius strip, and it seems to be about unity. I don't know if you plan to create an animated logo-sized one as per Macdoc's suggestion, but to me that kind of combines a dynamic symbolism with the 'eternal' unity symbol. In other words on Earth, from our perspective, things continually evolve and change, whereas from another perspective there are some things that remain the same (e.g. the laws of physics)?

I don't think the small turquoise one looks anything like as good as the large design. How would the large one look scaled down?
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1044  Postby twistor59 » Jun 12, 2010 10:50 am

Emergence wrote:
Though i have to say, that i am not quite sure about the symbolism of earth riding along a Möbius strip... :think:


Well clearly the Möbius stip symbolises non trivial vector bundles, and hence instantons which can be used to describe tunelling between inequivalent Yang Mills vacua. Clearly the earth is about to tunnel to a sector where the physical constants are different and homeopathy works. That's what immediately stood out to me anyway.

ETA : I think it's a fantastic logo by the way !
A soul in tension that's learning to fly
Condition grounded but determined to try
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earthbound misfit, I
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1045  Postby Emergence » Jun 12, 2010 10:57 am

I just found that the Humanist Party (<- Wiki link) uses the Möbius strip as logo, too. It's even tilted similarly, though a different surface-piece faces front. Could that be a problem?
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1046  Postby Calilasseia » Jun 12, 2010 11:10 am

Given that Emergence has added extra features, and probably wasn't aware of that other logo when he started out, I think we're on safe grounds. Apart from anything else, Emergence has 3D'ed his Möbius strip and given it translucency in the latest incarnation, which would be sufficient to differentiate it even without the addition of Planet Earth moving along it.

That latest version with the translucency, 3D effects and starfield backdrop is very nice. Of course, if the Hubble Deep Field was used as the backdrop for the 'high definition' version, that would be even more impressive in my view, but that's just a matter of personal taste (the Hubble Deep Field images are public domain, as are all works by NASA, so that won't result in a copyright issue).
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1047  Postby Emergence » Jun 12, 2010 11:16 am

I'll be glad to test and probably use any PD images as backdrop. Using a image of deep space would indeed be great, provided it is legal to do so.
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1048  Postby Calilasseia » Jun 12, 2010 11:22 am

Basically, if it's an image produced by NASA, it's automatically public domain - this applies to all works produced by US federal government agencies in the course of their daily business unless otherwise explicitly stated. This Wikipedia page explains all. The full statement of the relevant law is here at Cornell University's law school website.
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1049  Postby LIFE » Jun 12, 2010 11:59 am

Emergence wrote:I just found that the Humanist Party (<- Wiki link) uses the Möbius strip as logo, too. It's even tilted similarly, though a different surface-piece faces front. Could that be a problem?


I'm afraid so :(
I will contact them though and see what they say. Hopefully I'll get an answer.
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1050  Postby Emergence » Jun 12, 2010 12:27 pm

LIFE wrote:
Emergence wrote:I'm afraid so :(


Shit. :thumbdown: If so, i'll drop out of this contest. Too much time investment for the frustration.

One last animation.

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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1051  Postby LIFE » Jun 12, 2010 12:33 pm

Emergence wrote:
LIFE wrote:
Emergence wrote:I'm afraid so :(


Shit. :thumbdown: If so, i'll drop out of this contest. Too much time investment for the frustration.

One last animation.



Don't take my word for it. I'm still checking. The infinity symbol or the Moebius strip in this shape is probably not something someone could protect completely for one company. But I don't know for sure yet.
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1052  Postby Emergence » Jun 12, 2010 12:36 pm

Ok. But it is already frustrating to think that i come up with what i think is a really good idea, only to see that others had and use it already. Question is: Would RatSkeppers want to use something as logo, that another organization uses in similar form?

To be clear: I'M not frustrated with RatSkep but only with myself.
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1053  Postby Aern Rakesh » Jun 12, 2010 12:40 pm

Emergence wrote:
LIFE wrote:
Emergence wrote:I'm afraid so :(


Shit. :thumbdown: If so, i'll drop out of this contest. Too much time investment for the frustration.

One last animation.

Image


Don't you dare drop out!

I can't see how those Humanists can claim copyright for the generic Möbius strip. That would be like some organisation that has a cross in their logo claiming copyright on that???

Look at this, where there are several different logos that use the Borromean rings.

Like I said, if the Möbius strip is a generic symbol surely no-one can claim copyright? Presumably that Humanist organisation didn't invent the Möbius strip?

The animation is wonderful, Emergence.

Okay, I see LIFE has already said more or less that same. And hey, their logo isn't a patch on yours!
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1054  Postby THWOTH » Jun 12, 2010 12:43 pm

Calilasseia wrote:Given that Emergence has added extra features, and probably wasn't aware of that other logo when he started out, I think we're on safe grounds. Apart from anything else, Emergence has 3D'ed his Möbius strip and given it translucency in the latest incarnation, which would be sufficient to differentiate it even without the addition of Planet Earth moving along it.

If push came to shove the mobius could be oriented along the horizontal to become the infinity symbol, and no-one can claim that one.

I like the big black one above... It reminds me of the obelisk in 2001. ;) I like the broader typefaces personally, I think they reduce in scale better. But I also think that the iconography of the mobius-infinity-loop is so strong that it can be used in a variety settings, colours, fonts, and whatnots - as has been demonstrated by E's experiments so far btw - so a specific typeface might not be necessary... in fact, I don't think it is necessary to fix the font in this instance because the icon does all the work...

Image


;)

I feel we might be moving towards the natural closure of this part of the process.
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1055  Postby Aern Rakesh » Jun 12, 2010 12:48 pm

Emergence wrote:Ok. But it is already frustrating to think that i come up with what i think is a really good idea, only to see that others had and use it already. Question is: Would RatSkeppers want to use something as logo, that another organization uses in similar form?

To be clear: I'M not frustrated with RatSkep but only with myself.


Well considering how many RatSkeppers would be more than happy to use the blue rat as a logo—and isn't that used elsewhere—I should think the answer would be yes.

Okay, yes that other organisation used the strip, but they didn't add the Earth to it, or any of the rest of it.

And as far as I'm concerned, the strip already echoes the infinity sign, which has to have been used in many, many different situations.

Having said all this, I'd be just as upset, Emergence. ;) But don't give up on it. And at the end of the day it is going to be decided by vote, so you'll find out whether we're prepared to 'share' a logo.

You never know. The very fact that both we and this other organisation utilise the strip in our logos might start a trend where the strip becomes associated with humanism/rationality in the same way that the cross has come to signify Christianity. I don't think that's a bad thing at all. I certainly prefer it to the flying spaghetti monster icon!
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1056  Postby shh » Jun 12, 2010 12:49 pm

Emergence wrote:I just found that the Humanist Party (<- Wiki link) uses the Möbius strip as logo, too. It's even tilted similarly, though a different surface-piece faces front. Could that be a problem?

It could but I seriously doubt it tbh, you can't copyright the mobius strip, so that's pretty much end of story. Plus the Humanist party one is more like a letter form, they don't look the same at all other than the fact they're both mobius strips. On the other hand, the fact that there are strips everywhere and they can't be copyrighted might argue against it. But I don't think that's really an issue, I did a few image searches and couldn't find anything that it could be mistaken for.
Very nice design Emergence. :cheers:
Just so everyone knows, the logo here should really be thought of as the first one here: http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii71/Chemobile/RationalSkepticism/Moebius2-pres.jpg
The others are all variations. That goes for most of the logo's, decide on the one in black and white, and the colored versions are included. That's not to put anyone off discussing the variations or anything, it's just to note that if you're trying to decide between the blue version and the red version, of the same logo, you don't have to, you apply the colors, or backdrops as is fitting for where ever you're putting the logo.
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1057  Postby Emergence » Jun 12, 2010 12:56 pm

Maybe my frustration threshold is just set a bit low atm. Actually, i already knew that a vote would decide, so i knew that nothing i made would be a sure shot. But i hate to feel like a copycat over the best idea i so far had in this contest. Maybe i should try to overcome it by coming up with something different (and throughly check it for redundancy prior to submission).

[/drama] :)

shh wrote:That's not to put anyone off discussing the variations or anything, it's just to note that if you're trying to decide between the blue version and the red version, of the same logo, you don't have to, you apply the colors, or backdrops as is fitting for where ever you're putting the logo.


^^^That's an important note. :cheers:
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1058  Postby LIFE » Jun 12, 2010 1:05 pm

Well I'm pretty sure most "simple" forms out there have been used one way or the other by someone.
Doesn't mean they're automatically blocked for us ;)
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1059  Postby THWOTH » Jun 12, 2010 1:13 pm

LIFE wrote:Well I'm pretty sure most "simple" forms out there have been used one way or the other by someone.
Doesn't mean they're automatically blocked for us ;)

True. And anyway, the mobius strip is essential a geometrical construction and nobody 'owns' geometry, not mention that the general idea is so within the public domain that seeking to assert ownership of it would be like trying to assert ownership of the triangle! :D

I don't think there's anything to worry about - but I am a Pisces.
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Re: Design us a logo! - Official RatSkep logo contest

#1060  Postby LIFE » Jun 12, 2010 1:26 pm

THWOTH wrote:I don't think there's anything to worry about - but I am a Pisces.


I think the fact that you stated that is to worry about :evilgrin:
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