The book... I Need You!

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Re: The book... I Need You!

#61  Postby rEvolutionist » Sep 13, 2010 6:58 am

byofrcs wrote:
LIFE wrote:As you know...all my support but just to put things into perspective:
Don't expect to sell more than a few hundred copies unless you've got a publisher who knows what he's doing.
Self-publishing with a bit of a budget might get you 5k+ sales over a period of 3-6 months, if you're lucky.
To give an example: #1 rank on Amazon right now (The Grand Design by Hawking) sells 100+ copies a day.
Granted it's "only" Amazon but still...you'd expect higher sales with the biggest online bookstore, aye?
I'll give you more detailed stats via PM :smoke:


Obviously I wouldn't imagine that anyone would do this for money but to change the world but that said, what is needed is some controversy. When we have people burning the book then sales will increase dramatically.


:lol: I know someone who can organise that.... :whistle:
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Re: The book... I Need You!

#62  Postby hackenslash » Sep 13, 2010 8:39 am

Terry Jones..?
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Re: The book... I Need You!

#63  Postby Macros1980 » Sep 13, 2010 9:40 am

hackenslash wrote:Terry Jones..?


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Re: The book... I Need You!

#64  Postby Made of Stars » Sep 13, 2010 11:19 am

A thought: How about ditching the idea of a book, and do the 21st century alternative - a rational wiki that covers skepticism in the same way that talkorigins categorizes and debunks creationist BS. The first step would be to build an index of topics that would need to be covered. From ethics/morality, to biological origins, to abiogenesis, to M-theory, to fine-tuning. Oh, and we mustn't forget our reptilian overlords. Snopes meets RD.net meets Panda's Thumb. :)

Or has that been done already?
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Re: The book... I Need You!

#65  Postby twistor59 » Sep 13, 2010 11:57 am

Made of Stars wrote:A thought: How about ditching the idea of a book, and do the 21st century alternative - a rational wiki that covers skepticism in the same way that talkorigins categorizes and debunks creationist BS. The first step would be to build an index of topics that would need to be covered. From ethics/morality, to biological origins, to abiogenesis, to M-theory, to fine-tuning. Oh, and we mustn't forget our reptilian overlords. Snopes meets RD.net meets Panda's Thumb. :)

Or has that been done already?



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Re: The book... I Need You!

#66  Postby Made of Stars » Sep 13, 2010 12:12 pm

Cool, thanks! If anyone's looking for me, you know where I'll be...

Sorry hack, as you were. :cheers:
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Re: The book... I Need You!

#67  Postby NineOneFour » Sep 13, 2010 12:21 pm

Does this help?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLPL5p0fMg[/youtube]
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Considerations for a critical thinking book

#68  Postby blasphemer_number1 » Sep 13, 2010 2:30 pm

Are you going to make an attempt to write from a neutral perspective? Is it even possible write from a neutral perspective on hot-button topics like religion, ethics, and politics? I got a "Philosophy for dummies" book that was written with a strong bias toward a belief in God; I would have been fine with it, provided it adequately presented and considered counterpoint arguments -- which it failed to do. The link I provided is an Amazon reviewer's comments that echo my sentiment on that book.

Is there an overall goal for the book that can be concisely stated?
Is this a book on religious-thought -or- just critical thinking in general?
What are the characteristics of your target audience? (e.g., age, education, religion, socioeconomic status, race, gender, marital status) Perhaps this is more of a "Who is this book screaming out to" type question. I would guess that a blanket "for everybody" answer probably spells doom for the book. If it is for everybody, then some of the broad parts deserve some kind of mention, such as women's suffrage and racial inequalities. What other books exist that have covered similar material? Also, if there are hot button topics, might inclusion of some be a detriment to its potential readership (e.g., the KKK probably don't mind women voting, but they might skip a book that rightly calls "white power" out for being stupid.)
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Re: The book... I Need You!

#69  Postby THWOTH » Sep 13, 2010 4:24 pm

I'll do what I can to help - even if that is just cheering from the sidelines. Just let me know. In the meantime I brought doughnuts...

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Re: The book... I Need You!

#70  Postby Agrippina » Sep 13, 2010 4:31 pm

Yummy!!!

Good luck with this Hack.
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Re: The book... I Need You!

#71  Postby Tero » Sep 13, 2010 4:35 pm

I only write bumper stickers, much shorter. Here is one I need someone to print for me: It's all in your head.
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Re: The book... I Need You!

#72  Postby LIFE » Sep 13, 2010 4:55 pm

byofrcs wrote:
LIFE wrote:As you know...all my support but just to put things into perspective:
Don't expect to sell more than a few hundred copies unless you've got a publisher who knows what he's doing.
Self-publishing with a bit of a budget might get you 5k+ sales over a period of 3-6 months, if you're lucky.
To give an example: #1 rank on Amazon right now (The Grand Design by Hawking) sells 100+ copies a day.
Granted it's "only" Amazon but still...you'd expect higher sales with the biggest online bookstore, aye?
I'll give you more detailed stats via PM :smoke:


Obviously I wouldn't imagine that anyone would do this for money but to change the world but that said, what is needed is some controversy. When we have people burning the book then sales will increase dramatically.


I know but more sales = more impact :naughty2:
I for one am interested in getting this to have a good exposure.
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Re: The book... I Need You!

#73  Postby Mr P » Sep 13, 2010 11:09 pm

I was thinking perhaps a recommended reading list. Any book would benefit from this for two reasons, first the reader can follow up on any topics that peak their interest and second as the author you can see how this topic has been previously covered and add to the topic without going over ground already covered.

I'll start if I may.

Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan, for obvious reasons.
The Trouble With Physics by Lee Smolin. This gives a good insight into the ploitics that underlines, and can interfere with, the scientific process.
Un-weaving The Rainbow by Richard Dawkins. An insight into the subtle beauty of science.
Quantum Gods by Victor Stenger. A thourough de-bunking of all the usual quantum woo from what the fucking bleep to the vaticans pronouncements on the subject.
Discarded Science and Corrupted Science by John Grant. Two books detailing how bad ideas are destroyed and how outside influences can corrupt the process.
Tricks Of The Mind by Derren Brown. How to make people think you're psychic :)
Risk by Dan Gardener. An insight into how the media creates a shitstorm to stir up business, including many science "controversies".
And of course not forgetting;
Bad Science by Ben Golacre. If you haven't read this then why not? :snooty:

It may also be worth making reference to the likes of Hulme, Popper, Khun etc but not dwelling too much if it's going to be an idiots guide.

I'm sure others will have their suggestions. :thumbup:
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Re: The book... I Need You!

#74  Postby blindfaith » Sep 14, 2010 2:13 pm

being a simpleton i would also love to see lots of lovely pics, mainly stuff like transitionary fossils that creotards always bang on about not existing, also things like our human ancestor skulls and how we have evolved etc, also i hate to say it but an 'idiots guide' to all the massive basic errors apologists have when it comes to the basics of evolution, i.e we didnt evolve from fuckin monkeys





great idea hack and good luck
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Re: The book... I Need You!

#75  Postby Jain » Sep 14, 2010 7:24 pm

Mr P wrote:I was thinking perhaps a recommended reading list. Any book would benefit from this for two reasons, first the reader can follow up on any topics that peak their interest and second as the author you can see how this topic has been previously covered and add to the topic without going over ground already covered.

I'll start if I may.

Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan, for obvious reasons.
The Trouble With Physics by Lee Smolin. This gives a good insight into the ploitics that underlines, and can interfere with, the scientific process.
Un-weaving The Rainbow by Richard Dawkins. An insight into the subtle beauty of science.
Quantum Gods by Victor Stenger. A thourough de-bunking of all the usual quantum woo from what the fucking bleep to the vaticans pronouncements on the subject.
Discarded Science and Corrupted Science by John Grant. Two books detailing how bad ideas are destroyed and how outside influences can corrupt the process.
Tricks Of The Mind by Derren Brown. How to make people think you're psychic :)
Risk by Dan Gardener. An insight into how the media creates a shitstorm to stir up business, including many science "controversies".
And of course not forgetting;
Bad Science by Ben Golacre. If you haven't read this then why not? :snooty:

It may also be worth making reference to the likes of Hulme, Popper, Khun etc but not dwelling too much if it's going to be an idiots guide.

I'm sure others will have their suggestions. :thumbup:


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Re: The book... I Need You!

#76  Postby shh » Sep 15, 2010 12:00 am

Actually, it'd be nice to have exercises. Not sure how you'd go about that, but it'd be good if you could add some practical bits possibly at the end of a somehow relevant "reading" part, have a small "practical" which shows how to test some of the ideas, or demonstrate some general principle. Like a school book really, but without the shitty disinterest.
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Re: The book... I Need You!

#77  Postby hackenslash » Sep 15, 2010 12:24 am

That's actually a stunningly good idea. I'll have to give that some thought, as it isn't something I'd considered.

Cheers.
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Re: The book... I Need You!

#78  Postby LIFE » Sep 15, 2010 12:29 am

hackenslash wrote:That's actually a stunningly good idea. I'll have to give that some thought, as it isn't something I'd considered.

Cheers.


You might want to check out this test:

LIFE wrote:and a nice multiple choice test (10 questions) on critical thinking:
http://www.thekjs.essex.sch.uk/yates/quiz/quiz.htm
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Re: The book... I Need You!

#79  Postby shh » Sep 15, 2010 2:06 am

Edward deBono has a lot of good thinking excercises, mostly primarily lateral, as opposed to primarily critical, but they might give you some ideas, the five day thinking course, six thinking hats are two, among others, and now that I think of it, I believe DanDare has some qualifications in this area. Six thinking hats is stupid, until you do it and it's fucking aweseome.
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Re: The book... I Need You!

#80  Postby shh » Sep 15, 2010 2:14 am

wiki wrote: despite the fact that chocolate is not a fruit[citation needed]
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