"Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

 
 

Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#21  Postby HughMcB » Oct 05, 2010 4:32 pm

Is their any biological drawbacks to cannibalism?
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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#22  Postby Ubjon » Oct 05, 2010 4:36 pm

HughMcB wrote:Is their any biological drawbacks to cannibalism?


I imagine that you're more likely to contract diseases/parasites from meats of your own species as they are already compatable with your particular species.
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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#23  Postby HughMcB » Oct 05, 2010 4:40 pm

What about cooked?
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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#24  Postby Ubjon » Oct 05, 2010 4:42 pm

HughMcB wrote:What about cooked?


I imagine that would depend on whether the disease/parasite is able to survive being cooked. Just looking at Prions it looks like they are quite resistant things, even against heat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prion#Sterilization

Sterilization

Infectious particles possessing nucleic acid are dependent upon it to direct their continued replication. Prions, however, are infectious by their effect on normal versions of the protein. Sterilizing prions therefore involves the denaturation of the protein to a state where the molecule is no longer able to induce the abnormal folding of normal proteins. Prions are generally quite resistant to proteases, heat, radiation, and formalin treatments,[54] although their infectivity can be reduced by such treatments. Effective prion decontamination relies upon protein hydrolysis or reduction or destruction of protein tertiary structure. Examples include bleach, caustic soda, and strong acidic detergents such as LpH.[55] 134°C (274°F) for 18 minutes in a pressurized steam autoclave may not be enough to deactivate the agent of disease.[56][57] Ozone sterilization is currently being studied as a potential method for prion denature and deactivation.[58] Renaturation of a completely denatured prion to infectious status has not yet been achieved, however partially denatured prions can be renatured to an infective status under certain artificial conditions.[59]

The World Health Organization recommends any of the following three procedures for the sterilization of all heat-resistant surgical instruments to ensure that they are not contaminated with prions:

1. Immerse in a pan containing 1N NaOH and heat in a gravity-displacement autoclave at 121°C for 30 minutes; clean; rinse in water; and then perform routine sterilization processes.
2. Immerse in 1N NaOH or sodium hypochlorite (20,000 parts per million available chlorine) for 1 hour; transfer instruments to water; heat in a gravity-displacement autoclave at 121°C for 1 hour; clean; and then perform routine sterilization processes.
3. Immerse in 1N NaOH or sodium hypochlorite (20,000 parts per million available chlorine) for 1 hour; remove and rinse in water, then transfer to an open pan and heat in a gravity-displacement (121°C) or in a porous-load (134°C) autoclave for 1 hour; clean; and then perform routine sterilization processes.[60]


Assuming that prions cause disease I think that these techniques would have been beyond your average human back then ;)
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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#25  Postby HughMcB » Oct 05, 2010 4:47 pm

I agree, I didn't really know that there was many harmful organisms that can survive the cooking process. I still wonder whether the danger of eating cooked hominid meat would be greater than eating any other though. :dunno:
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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#26  Postby natselrox » Oct 06, 2010 6:56 am

Prions. Kuru.
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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#27  Postby cherries » Oct 06, 2010 8:57 am

wasn't AIDS contracted from people eating bush meat(monkeys)?
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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#28  Postby natselrox » Oct 06, 2010 8:59 am

cherries wrote:wasn't AIDS contracted from people eating bush meat(monkeys)?


Chimps, actually. The story is long and boring. :P

Try this!

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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#29  Postby cherries » Oct 06, 2010 9:10 am

:this: :rofl:

not that new but still relevant

Scientists find new strain of HIV


Gorillas have been found, for the first time, to be a source of HIV.

Previous research had shown the HIV-1 strain, the main source of human infections, with 33m cases worldwide, originated from a virus in chimpanzees.

But researchers have now discovered an HIV infection in a Cameroonian woman which is clearly linked to a gorilla strain, Nature Medicine reports.cont...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8175379.stm


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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#30  Postby Galaxian » Jun 20, 2011 1:06 pm

katja z wrote:According to the article, cannibalism would have been fairly widespread among early humans.

Hi katja. Dietary cannibalism has been common in many groups. Proved by history, archaeology & observation :coffee:
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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#31  Postby HughMcB » Jun 20, 2011 2:08 pm

natselrox wrote:I usually take these studies with a huge pinch of salt.

I hope this pun was intended. :grin:
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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#32  Postby Spearthrower » Jun 27, 2011 9:36 am

natselrox wrote:Aren't bonobos the more violent cousins of us? :scratch:


Pan troglodytes = warmakers
Pan paniscus = lovemakers

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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#33  Postby natselrox » Jul 02, 2011 6:07 am

Spearthrower wrote:
natselrox wrote:Aren't bonobos the more violent cousins of us? :scratch:


Pan troglodytes = warmakers
Pan paniscus = lovemakers

You should have seen the faces of the students in our Primate Behavioural Ecology course when our first class was an hour long viewing of bonobo sexual acts.


Oh! Are there videos available? :mrgreen:
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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#34  Postby Galaxian » Jul 02, 2011 10:43 am

HughMcB wrote:Is their any biological drawbacks to cannibalism?

Some (such as prions) but none as lethal as starving to death. But the menu would disagree! :rofl:
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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#35  Postby Galaxian » Jul 02, 2011 10:57 am

cherries wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMEPV-NTeZs

Thanks cherries for that TED video. Did you notice it was anthropocentric? That transmission pyramid with the great humans at the very top. We, according to the presenter, get our diseases from those lower animals....Except, he forgot that it's a 2 way street. We also give diseases to animals. For example, if I remember correctly, Swine Flu was passed from humans to pigs.
Image :shhh:
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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#36  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 02, 2011 11:12 am

If there weren't any non-human animals watching the TED presentation, I'd call that 'playing to the crowd'.

I've never heard about swine flu originating in humans. Have you got a source for that? I understand that HN31 has a reassortment of genes from birds, pigs and humans, which is why it can pass between them, but I didn't think anyone was remotely aware of where it first originated, although it is endemic in particular pig populations.
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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#37  Postby Galaxian » Jul 02, 2011 12:26 pm

Spearthrower wrote:If there weren't any non-human animals watching the TED presentation, I'd call that 'playing to the crowd'.
I've never heard about swine flu originating in humans. Have you got a source for that? I understand that HN31 has a reassortment of genes from birds, pigs and humans, which is why it can pass between them, but I didn't think anyone was remotely aware of where it first originated, although it is endemic in particular pig populations.

There were 2 other possibilities considered: a) humans > pigs, and b) escape from a research lab:
http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2 ... rous_s.php
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... &aid=13622
Anyway, humans are as much complicit as pigs are :book:
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Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

 
 

Re: "Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

#38  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 02, 2011 12:41 pm

Galaxian wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:If there weren't any non-human animals watching the TED presentation, I'd call that 'playing to the crowd'.
I've never heard about swine flu originating in humans. Have you got a source for that? I understand that HN31 has a reassortment of genes from birds, pigs and humans, which is why it can pass between them, but I didn't think anyone was remotely aware of where it first originated, although it is endemic in particular pig populations.



There were 2 other possibilities considered: a) humans > pigs, and b) escape from a research lab:
http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2 ... rous_s.php


Well, that actually quite clearly stipulates birds > humans > pigs... not quite the same.


Galaxian wrote:http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13622 Anyway, humans are as much complicit as pigs are :book:


We were talking about where swine flu originated, and it clearly didn't originate in a lab when influenza A was present long before these outbreaks, or in fact laboratories studying influenza. That's not to deny the possibility that a particular strand could have evolved under experimental conditions and 'escaped', but that isn't really what I was asking about.

Thanks for the links though!
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