"Human Meat Just Another Meal for Early Europeans?"

katja z · #1 by **katja z** » Sep 04, 2010 4:50 pm

For some European cavemen, human meat wasn't a ritual delicacy or a food of last resort but an everyday meal, according to a new study of fossil bones found in Spain.

And, it seems, everyone in the area was doing it, making the discovery "the oldest example of cultural cannibalism known to date," the study says.

The 800,000-year-old butchered bones from the cave, called Gran Dolina, indicate cannibalism was rife among members of western Europe's first known human species, Homo antecessor.

The fossil bones, collected since 1994, reveal that "gastronomic cannibalism" was commonplace and habitual—both to meet nutritional needs and to kill off local competition, according to the study, published in the August issue of Current Anthropology.
(continued)

According to the article, cannibalism would have been fairly widespread among early humans. I wonder why; afaik we don't see this behaviour in other animal species. :scratch:

natselrox · #2 by **natselrox** » Sep 04, 2010 4:51 pm

I usually take these studies with a huge pinch of salt.

Animavore · #3 by **Animavore** » Sep 04, 2010 4:53 pm

Yeah we do.

DaveD · #4 by **DaveD** » Sep 04, 2010 5:59 pm

natselrox wrote:I usually take these studies with a huge pinch of salt.

Low sodium, I hope.

katja z · #5 by **katja z** » Sep 04, 2010 6:25 pm

Animavore wrote:Yeah we do.

I knew chimps ate the occasional fellow chimp, but do they do it regularly?

@natselrox: I agree this is a better use for salt than on my french fries :thumbup:

It's still an interesting article though.

natselrox · #6 by **natselrox** » Sep 04, 2010 6:32 pm

Aren't bonobos the more violent cousins of us? :scratch:

Ubjon · #7 by **Ubjon** » Sep 04, 2010 6:41 pm

natselrox wrote:I usually take these studies with a huge pinch of salt.

Yup as its mostly broad speculation founded on scant evidence.

jparada · #8 by **jparada** » Sep 04, 2010 11:33 pm

I thought they were talking about early European Sapiens when i read the title.

Horwood Beer-Master · #9 by **Horwood Beer-Master** » Sep 05, 2010 5:24 pm

natselrox wrote:Aren't bonobos the more violent cousins of us?

No. They're the horny ones.

natselrox · **#10** by **natselrox** » Sep 06, 2010 5:39 am

Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
natselrox wrote:Aren't bonobos the more violent cousins of us?

No. They're the horny ones.

Yeah.

byofrcs · **#11** by **byofrcs** » Sep 06, 2010 7:15 am

Assuming this wasn't just picking off the sick and injured lying around then they would use hunter-killer tactics to get this meat. If that is so then given the human brain then that would create an arms race in tactics to avoid getting eaten or to get the meat.

No wonder we evolved such paranoid beliefs on seeing agency.

cherries · **#12** by **cherries** » Sep 06, 2010 7:25 am

i've posted this already here,it's the germans

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/general-chat/the-creeping-germanization-of-europe-t2468-220.html

German Excavation Reveals Signs of Mass Cannibalism

Was it mass cannibalism, ritual slaughter or both? Archaeologists who unearthed the remains of 500 Stone Age corpses in the German town of Herxheim say the meat was cut off their bones as if they were livestock. One conclusion is that the people were eaten -- after volunteering to be sacrificed.

How do you carve up a cow? First you cut the meat off the bones. You start by severing the muscles from the joints with a sharp knife. The fibrous meat can then easily be scraped off, from top to bottom. After you've removed the flesh there's still a lot of goodness left. Deep in the long bones and vertebrae lies the marrow. To get at this delicacy you smash the bones and scrape out the marrow or simply boil it out in water. What's left is a pile of naked bones with traces of scratching and scraping as well as the small debris of bone that contained marrow...cont.http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,665824,00.html#ref=rss

Festeringbob · **#13** by **Festeringbob** » Oct 05, 2010 4:15 am

natselrox wrote:I usually take these studies with a huge pinch of salt.

and some mustard?

byofrcs · **#14** by **byofrcs** » Oct 05, 2010 4:55 am

At least the transubstantiation is a lot less messy and easier to clean up.

Mr.Samsa · **#15** by **Mr.Samsa** » Oct 05, 2010 5:07 am

katja z wrote:According to the article, cannibalism would have been fairly widespread among early humans. I wonder why; afaik we don't see this behaviour in other animal species.

As pointed out, I'm pretty sure cannibalism is a pretty common phenomenon in the wild, and I think particularly in aquatic animals. That said, I'm not sure what the rates are so if it is true that humans ate other humans as part of a staple diet, and it's true that this is a rare behavior among other animals, then I'd imagine that it could be a result of our intelligence. I think territorial animals, after killing the intruding animal, won't usually eat it or at least not as often as they would when they kill their prey (perhaps as a result of taste preference, or as part of a general rule that says "don't eat anything that might be related to me"). Humans, being the geniuses we are, probably figured that we could kill two birds with one stone - get dinner for the evening and kill off our direct ecological competition.

All speculation though.

Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
natselrox wrote:Aren't bonobos the more violent cousins of us?

No. They're the horny ones.

Unfortunately the two aren't exclusive - Bonobo's are pretty violent too. They just do the brutality and violence in between the orgies.

natselrox · **#16** by **natselrox** » Oct 05, 2010 5:26 am

Mr.Samsa wrote:
Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
natselrox wrote:Aren't bonobos the more violent cousins of us?

No. They're the horny ones.

Unfortunately the two aren't exclusive - Bonobo's are pretty violent too. They just do the brutality and violence in between the orgies.

Gotta love the bonobos. :mrgreen:

Mr.Samsa · **#17** by **Mr.Samsa** » Oct 05, 2010 5:33 am

natselrox wrote:Gotta love the bonobos.

Because if you don't, they'll kill you...

katja z · **#18** by **katja z** » Oct 05, 2010 6:28 am

Mr.Samsa wrote:
natselrox wrote:Gotta love the bonobos.

Because if you don't, they'll kill you...

... and have you for dinner? :scratch:

katja z · **#19** by **katja z** » Oct 05, 2010 6:52 am

Mr.Samsa wrote:
As pointed out, I'm pretty sure cannibalism is a pretty common phenomenon in the wild, and I think particularly in aquatic animals.

You're right, I did a little googling and came up with surprisingly many hits :shock:

Wikipedia says that cannibalism has been documented in over 1500 species (this includes sexual cannibalism, eating their young etc., which probably doesn't count as "part of a staple diet", but still ...)

That said, I'm not sure what the rates are so if it is true that humans ate other humans as part of a staple diet, and it's true that this is a rare behavior among other animals, then I'd imagine that it could be a result of our intelligence. I think territorial animals, after killing the intruding animal, won't usually eat it or at least not as often as they would when they kill their prey (perhaps as a result of taste preference, or as part of a general rule that says "don't eat anything that might be related to me"). Humans, being the geniuses we are, probably figured that we could kill two birds with one stone - get dinner for the evening and kill off our direct ecological competition.

But if cannibalism were the result of our intelligence, why have we stopped now we're (presumably) even more intelligent? Not only we don't see it as a clever solution to food shortage, we generally find the thought revolting and disturbing. Would you chalk this up to purely cultural reasons?
On second thoughts, the answer is probably yes, since some cultures do find that the idea of eating another human isn't wholly without merit ... :think:

Hmmm. What about the health hazards of cannibalism, surely they would have been higher if it were a prevalent practice? Could that have been a factor?

Ubjon · **#20** by **Ubjon** » Oct 05, 2010 4:17 pm

I love it. One possible example of cannabilism and apparantly we were all canniabals