Women & Beauty

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Women & Beauty

#1  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 08, 2015 2:20 pm



This could be posted in many subfora here: it's interesting from a sociological point of view; it's certainly a contemporary topic for current affairs; but it's something ubiquitous across all human cultures and across all times. The social pressure for achieving specific standards of beauty in a woman.

Clearly, there's a lot of Biology going on under the hood here in terms of sexual selection, and ways we've evolved to stay attracted to our opposite gender, but it seems that human males tend to have a more socially obtainable requirement of say wealth or status, whereas women still seem irrevocably tied to a genetic legacy outside their control.

I live in a Buddhist culture which is all about rejecting the temporal and the superficial, yet Thailand is also a beauty-obsessed culture. It's one of the world's leading destinations for cosmetic surgery, and it's becoming ever more routine here for girls to 'fix' bits which nature failed to give them. I can't tell you how many times I've heard girls express the idea that it's their job or duty to be beautiful for their boyfriend/husband, not at home, but outside in society. And TV from commercials to soap operas constantly reinforce the idea that only girls with certain looks (specifically white skin) have any opportunity of getting a good man.

This isn't specific to Thailand, though - that's why it's so fascinating. It really does appear to be something all humans weave very strongly into their cultural practices.


Edit: I forgot you can embed YT vids.
Last edited by Spearthrower on Jul 08, 2015 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#2  Postby tuco » Jul 08, 2015 2:34 pm

The social pressures are under the hood possibly of biological origin.

I can speak only for myself but whatever media reinforces in me its not working much as I like the same kind of girls since I remember. Which is kind of problem when getting older lol Or I was primed long before as a baby and dunno about it. Though I think there were some tests letting babies react to different faces for example. Beauty is allegedly under the hood symmetry. Who knows .. so back to me yeah I like "beautiful" women and despite I cannot define them rigorously there are likely objective criteria statistically common to girls I had sex with.

So what are we discussing? Soon we will be shaving I reckon.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#3  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 08, 2015 4:52 pm

tuco wrote:The social pressures are under the hood possibly of biological origin.

I can speak only for myself but whatever media reinforces in me its not working much as I like the same kind of girls since I remember. Which is kind of problem when getting older lol Or I was primed long before as a baby and dunno about it. Though I think there were some tests letting babies react to different faces for example. Beauty is allegedly under the hood symmetry. Who knows .. so back to me yeah I like "beautiful" women and despite I cannot define them rigorously there are likely objective criteria statistically common to girls I had sex with.

So what are we discussing? Soon we will be shaving I reckon.



It's not just media, although that obviously plays a big part in the transmission of ideals and ideas, but if society didn't already have some predilection for this kind of treatment of half of its citizenry, the media wouldn't be able to do it.

Are you so sure that your concept of beauty in a woman hasn't been impacted by the society and the time you live in?
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Re: Women & Beauty

#4  Postby tuco » Jul 08, 2015 5:40 pm

No, how could I be?

I just wonder what the topic here is. That "image" is something everyone, who does not live on deserted island, has and more or less lets say cultivates is not controversial to me. Someone feels pressured by society into something? Story of my life so that is not controversial either. That is how it works. If I want something from someone, say sex or just talk, I need to behave in certain way ~ to have certain image.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#5  Postby laklak » Jul 08, 2015 5:42 pm

Or a fist full of dollars.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#6  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 08, 2015 6:20 pm

tuco wrote:No, how could I be?

I just wonder what the topic here is. That "image" is something everyone, who does not live on deserted island, has and more or less lets say cultivates is not controversial to me. Someone feels pressured by society into something? Story of my life so that is not controversial either. That is how it works. If I want something from someone, say sex or just talk, I need to behave in certain way ~ to have certain image.



I'm not trying to be controversial. If there's nothing of interest here for you to discuss, don't feel obligated! :)
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Re: Women & Beauty

#7  Postby tuco » Jul 08, 2015 6:28 pm

Fair enough. It may also worth be noting that there is such a thing as sex tourism in Thailand and probably majority of sex tourists come from White West which then could relate to the phenomena you mention.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#8  Postby Emmeline » Jul 08, 2015 8:08 pm

Re: the video

It's sad that she's read such nasty comments about her appearance & I suspect that many of those who posted the comments wouldn't win a beauty contest themselves. I think she was brave to post images of her acne but I'm not surprised at the negative reactions & I doubt she is either. The Internet gives pathetic wankers a voice that they'd never have the balls to use to anyone's face.

However, Internet comments aside, spotty skin looks unhealthy & we have evolved to be repulsed by images of ill health. That's how we have survived as a species isn't it? We are attracted to those who look healthy because by mating with healthy partners, we have an increased survival rate of our offspring. So although I think it's natural to feel squeamish about acned skin, we've also evolved to gain empathy & the ability of reasoning, which enables us to transcend some of our baser instincts.

Men & boys get acne too of course so they also experience rejection & negative comments from people. I don't think it's particularly a female issue.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#9  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jul 08, 2015 8:17 pm

I always find it funny when people discover for the first time that fat women used to be the ideal beauties.
It's a good example of how societal priorities affect the general beauty image.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#10  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 09, 2015 3:02 am

tuco wrote:Fair enough. It may also worth be noting that there is such a thing as sex tourism in Thailand and probably majority of sex tourists come from White West which then could relate to the phenomena you mention.


Yes, living in Thailand for 12 years, I am familiar with the fact that there is sex tourism in Thailand, but this is not related to anything I said above. It's not as if all girls in Thailand are in the sex trade, or interested in westerners. In fact, it's kind of a stereotype here that only 'ugly' girls go with farang. This stereotype, as usual, has a kernel of truth in it - in Thailand, the white, Chinese middle-class is the ideal of beauty, whereas it is mostly the north and north-eastern dark-skinned Isaan girls who have Western boyfriends/husbands or who end up in the sex trade. The common link there, though, is poverty. Isaan is a very poor, mostly agricultural area.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#11  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 09, 2015 3:04 am

Emmeline wrote:Re: the video

It's sad that she's read such nasty comments about her appearance & I suspect that many of those who posted the comments wouldn't win a beauty contest themselves. I think she was brave to post images of her acne but I'm not surprised at the negative reactions & I doubt she is either. The Internet gives pathetic wankers a voice that they'd never have the balls to use to anyone's face.

However, Internet comments aside, spotty skin looks unhealthy & we have evolved to be repulsed by images of ill health. That's how we have survived as a species isn't it? We are attracted to those who look healthy because by mating with healthy partners, we have an increased survival rate of our offspring. So although I think it's natural to feel squeamish about acned skin, we've also evolved to gain empathy & the ability of reasoning, which enables us to transcend some of our baser instincts.

Men & boys get acne too of course so they also experience rejection & negative comments from people. I don't think it's particularly a female issue.



Quite correct, but I wasn't really focusing on the acne side, but rather the concept of beauty and the way society reacts to it. The contradictory requirements of looking beautiful, yet being criticised for spending too much effort on looking beautiful.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#12  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 09, 2015 3:08 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:I always find it funny when people discover for the first time that fat women used to be the ideal beauties.
It's a good example of how societal priorities affect the general beauty image.



Another was the idealised 'consumptive' look: pale, fragile, and noble looking.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#13  Postby pelfdaddy » Jul 09, 2015 3:52 am

'Beautiful' and 'Sexy' are two different things. I only care about 'Sexy'.

Some range-of-the-moment notion of facial perfection has never made a strong impression on me. But I have always responded to a sexy woman without much regard for her 1-10 rating on the standard facial beauty scale.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#14  Postby Calilasseia » Jul 09, 2015 4:06 am

In short, we're Bower Birds with ideas above our station.

Males are valued according to whether or not they can put together flashy bowers (i.e, collect mansions and limousines), whilst females are valued according to whether or not they can give the males with the flashiest bowers hard ons.

Uncomfortable, but true.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#15  Postby Fallible » Jul 09, 2015 7:09 am

This is why I live in a ditch.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
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Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#16  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jul 09, 2015 7:37 am

Spearthrower wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:I always find it funny when people discover for the first time that fat women used to be the ideal beauties.
It's a good example of how societal priorities affect the general beauty image.



Another was the idealised 'consumptive' look: pale, fragile, and noble looking.

:nod:
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Re: Women & Beauty

#17  Postby monkeyboy » Jul 09, 2015 8:08 am

pelfdaddy wrote:'Beautiful' and 'Sexy' are two different things. I only care about 'Sexy'.

Some range-of-the-moment notion of facial perfection has never made a strong impression on me. But I have always responded to a sexy woman without much regard for her 1-10 rating on the standard facial beauty scale.

Damned right. I have encountered some truly beautiful women who turn out to be about as sexy as a block of concrete. Superficially plainer types are generally much sexier. I prefer flirty personalities over looks any day.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#18  Postby Mike_L » Jul 09, 2015 8:34 am

Emmeline wrote:Re: the video

It's sad that she's read such nasty comments about her appearance & I suspect that many of those who posted the comments wouldn't win a beauty contest themselves. I think she was brave to post images of her acne but I'm not surprised at the negative reactions & I doubt she is either. The Internet gives pathetic wankers a voice that they'd never have the balls to use to anyone's face.

However, Internet comments aside, spotty skin looks unhealthy & we have evolved to be repulsed by images of ill health. That's how we have survived as a species isn't it? We are attracted to those who look healthy because by mating with healthy partners, we have an increased survival rate of our offspring. So although I think it's natural to feel squeamish about acned skin, we've also evolved to gain empathy & the ability of reasoning, which enables us to transcend some of our baser instincts.

Men & boys get acne too of course so they also experience rejection & negative comments from people. I don't think it's particularly a female issue.

:nod:

Acne can have a devastating effect on a young person...

Acne, Depression and Suicide

...and can keep on having such effect well after the teen years are behind...

Adult acne @ WebMD

...and even after the acne itself is gone...

Acne scarring @ Mayo Clinic

There needs to be way more sympathy/empathy for acne sufferers, IMO.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#19  Postby tuco » Jul 09, 2015 9:45 am

Spearthrower wrote:
tuco wrote:Fair enough. It may also worth be noting that there is such a thing as sex tourism in Thailand and probably majority of sex tourists come from White West which then could relate to the phenomena you mention.


Yes, living in Thailand for 12 years, I am familiar with the fact that there is sex tourism in Thailand, but this is not related to anything I said above. It's not as if all girls in Thailand are in the sex trade, or interested in westerners. In fact, it's kind of a stereotype here that only 'ugly' girls go with farang. This stereotype, as usual, has a kernel of truth in it - in Thailand, the white, Chinese middle-class is the ideal of beauty, whereas it is mostly the north and north-eastern dark-skinned Isaan girls who have Western boyfriends/husbands or who end up in the sex trade. The common link there, though, is poverty. Isaan is a very poor, mostly agricultural area.


Not related to anything you said? I tend to think otherwise but alright.
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Re: Women & Beauty

#20  Postby Thommo » Jul 09, 2015 10:10 am

Fallible wrote:This is why I live in a ditch.


But what a ditch! At this end we have mud, over here the stagnant pool, teeming with rich life, fragrant and stimulating. The rock garden* at the back is one of the wonders of the modern world, and I heard rumours a rather large, warty toad named Frank was once sighted living under it.

*A brick, some rocks, what's nomenclature between friends?
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