Back to the Moon in Five Years?

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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#21  Postby tuco » Mar 28, 2019 11:05 am

The only thnig I've learned from your post i have no avatar is that you dont like Mr Trump and you know shit about space travel. Well done.

So ... it could be done 50 years ago but .. knowledge was lost (what kind of knowledge exactly?) .. and who does he want to mate with?

Jesus fucking christ this board.
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#22  Postby Matt_B » Mar 28, 2019 11:58 am

I wouldn't think any crucial knowledge has been lost. It might be the case that there are a few things that you could get pretty much off the shelf in the 1960s that there's no modern equivalent of, but most of the novel technologies that NASA and their contractors had to develop from scratch are still around in some form or another.

What's lacking is a willingness to write blank cheques and press on with unnecessary haste, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#23  Postby tuco » Mar 28, 2019 12:01 pm

Give me a single reason, beyond cool stories, why I should not trust NASA?

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa ... five-years
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#24  Postby felltoearth » Mar 28, 2019 12:11 pm

Matt_B wrote:I wouldn't think any crucial knowledge has been lost. It might be the case that there are a few things that you could get pretty much off the shelf in the 1960s that there's no modern equivalent of, but most of the novel technologies that NASA and their contractors had to develop from scratch are still around in some form or another.

What's lacking is a willingness to write blank cheques and press on with unnecessary haste, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Indeed, it’s about when you write the cheques. SpaceX will underwrite some of the R&D but at some point the bill for ROI will come in, plus the expected premium for shareholder value. Pay now or pay later.
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#25  Postby tuco » Mar 28, 2019 12:21 pm

This just popped out on me

Can NASA Really Put Astronauts on the Moon in 2024?

NASA can probably meet the Trump administration's aggressive moon-landing timeline, experts say — but it won't be easy.

https://www.space.com/nasa-astronauts-m ... ility.html
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#26  Postby Scot Dutchy » Mar 28, 2019 3:26 pm

What a waste of money. Such fucking big egos walking around. How about solving a few terrestrial problems first. May I mention climate? Hunger? World health? Peace?
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#27  Postby felltoearth » Mar 28, 2019 3:39 pm

We can't do all of them?
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#28  Postby tuco » Mar 28, 2019 4:10 pm

I think we've had this debate, "on the benefits of space travel", before.

As a side note, virtues need to be done because anyone can signal.
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#29  Postby Matt_B » Mar 28, 2019 8:39 pm

felltoearth wrote:Indeed, it’s about when you write the cheques. SpaceX will underwrite some of the R&D but at some point the bill for ROI will come in, plus the expected premium for shareholder value. Pay now or pay later.


If they could get out of it by only writing one for SpaceX they'd be doing well. Back in the 1960s it was blank cheques all round for pretty much the entirety of the military-industrial complex. North American made the command module, Grumman the lunar lander, and Boeing, Douglas, Chrysler (eat that Tesla), and again North American made the rockets.

Indeed SpaceX doesn't even get a look-in at NASA's current plans for a return to the Moon. Lockheed-Martin and Airbus are the prime contractors for the spacecraft and Boeing, Rocketdyne and Northrop are going to make the rockets. I dare say that Elon Musk would be hoping that one or more of them get canned and he gets to pick up the moneycontract instead, but realistically they're no closer to being able to do it even if they've been a bit more visible with their progress.
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#30  Postby i have no avatar » Mar 29, 2019 4:00 am

tuco wrote:The only thnig I've learned from your post i have no avatar is that you dont like Mr Trump and you know shit about space travel. Well done.


This is a pretty good assessment, except for the "Well done." part. The statements in my post that expressed my opinions of Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence were off topic, and I apologize. And you're right, other than the obvious (see below), I don't know shit about space travel.

I also don't know shit about how my own fucking government works, although the ongoing politics of the wall has given me at least some recall as to who controls the purse strings (and maybe why). My opinion of Mr. Trump aside, I do not think that the political climate is conducive to spending large amounts of money on what might be considered, rightly or wrongly, one of Mr. Trump's pet projects. In other words, these days, I don't think that manned space exploration can become a bipartisan goal, as it was in the '60s.

Getting back to what I do know about (manned) space travel, we have the obvious:
    It is dangerous.
    It is expensive.
    It is subject to the (old) adage that I mentioned in my previous post. NASA agrees with me.

tuco wrote:Give me a single reason, beyond cool stories, why I should not trust NASA?

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa ... five-years


Thanks for the post. I am glad to see that the south pole is the goal. I mean that is one area where a concentration of water is, right? I am for going back to the moon if we intend to make it for the long term and without breaking the bank, but I am against going back if it is just for another few fleeting moments.

tuco wrote:This just popped out on me

Can NASA Really Put Astronauts on the Moon in 2024?

NASA can probably meet the Trump administration's aggressive moon-landing timeline, experts say — but it won't be easy.

https://www.space.com/nasa-astronauts-m ... ility.html


Once again, thanks. Both articles mentioned EM-1, scheduled for next year. If NASA pulls this off, I think that there is a chance for the stated goal to be achieved. However, from the second article:

That strategy involves lofting astronauts using Orion and the Space Launch System (SLS), a giant rocket that's still in development. SLS is scheduled to launch for the first time in 2020, when it will send Orion on an uncrewed test flight around the moon, an endeavor known as Exploration Mission 1 (EM-1).


My bold, of course. But the part in bold seems incredible - it's the first launch and the plan is to leave earth orbit, go around the moon, and return? Hmm, giving some thought to the old adage seems appropriate here.

From the same article:

"If the goal is to land people on the moon by 2024, that doesn't leave a lot of time to do test flights," Weeden said. "Whether or not it's too risky is above my pay grade. This is a huge debate."


Holy fucking shit! In my opinion, the old adage is in major play here, although it is possible that things could go perfectly.

tuco wrote:So ... it could be done 50 years ago but .. knowledge was lost (what kind of knowledge exactly?) ..


Yeah, this is a good question, and others have posted that not too much was lost, perhaps. It seems to me that the docking maneuvers in the '60s should be a piece of cake now since there are autonomous re-supply dockings with the ISS.

But what about the piloting / computer control programs and simulators for the lunar landers? Surely there will be an auto pilot. But you can also bet that there will be manual over-ride in case something goes wrong, and thus there will be a shitload of training required. This will take time and money. And the auto pilot is not a sure thing either. There have been auto-pilots on commercial aircraft for a long time, yet we still have situations like the 737 Max. Maybe, and only just maybe, Boeing didn't put enough time and money into development, simulation, and testing.

tuco wrote:and who does he want to mate with?


As I mentioned above, I now realize that my statements about Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence are off topic. But I'm glad that you asked the question as it helped me arrive at this conclusion (I'm pretty fucking stupid).

tuco wrote:Jesus fucking christ this board.


Well what do you fucking expect when the fora give carte blanche (almost) to idiots like me?

Bottom line: I still think that the schedule is too aggressive, but I could be wrong. That is all I really meant to say. Again, sorry for posting my opinions on a couple of our elected officials in this thread.
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#31  Postby Matt_B » Mar 29, 2019 5:33 am

As an aside, if Mike Pence wants to see the next man and first woman on the Moon together, surely that means them being alone in a room together for some time? :)
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#32  Postby Scot Dutchy » Mar 29, 2019 7:41 am

Still a waste of time and money.
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#33  Postby aufbahrung » Mar 29, 2019 9:47 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Still a waste of time and money.


You could say that of all human activity since living is a terminal condition with absolute uncharted territory at the end. :think:
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#34  Postby Cito di Pense » Mar 29, 2019 10:06 am

aufbahrung wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Still a waste of time and money.


You could say that of all human activity since living is a terminal condition with absolute uncharted territory at the end. :think:


You're not some kind of proponent of vitalism, are you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitalism

Well, you might not be, at that. You might just be pandering to some glib pop-philosophical version of consciousnessness.
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#35  Postby aufbahrung » Mar 29, 2019 10:16 am

Cito di Pense wrote:
aufbahrung wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Still a waste of time and money.


You could say that of all human activity since living is a terminal condition with absolute uncharted territory at the end. :think:


You're not some kind of proponent of vitalism, are you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitalism

Well, you might not be, at that. You might just be pandering to some glib pop-philosophical version of consciousnessness.


Heavy for me... :?
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#36  Postby Cito di Pense » Mar 29, 2019 10:29 am

aufbahrung wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
aufbahrung wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Still a waste of time and money.


You could say that of all human activity since living is a terminal condition with absolute uncharted territory at the end. :think:


You're not some kind of proponent of vitalism, are you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitalism

Well, you might not be, at that. You might just be pandering to some glib pop-philosophical version of consciousnessness.


Heavy for me... :?


I was saying the same thing. What's heavy is waving around dramatic lingo like absolute uncharted territory. It's not really the way to dispense with equally glib nihilistic crap like "waste of time and money", which is just the opinion of someone who habitually delivers emphatic opinions devoid of reasoning that supports them. Why don't we fix all the shit that's going wrong on planet earth before exploring space? Because every time you put out one little fire in a toilet, somebody else invents a new reason to whine.

I think it's probably a safe guess that humans will be walking around on the moon again within 20 years.
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#37  Postby Scot Dutchy » Mar 29, 2019 10:56 am

So what does it deliver? You are of course as always talking a load of crap of the self opinionated.
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#38  Postby aban57 » Mar 29, 2019 11:04 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:So what does it deliver?


As always, your ignorance on a subject doesn't seem to prevent you from talking about it.

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/infographics/infographic.view.php?id=11358

20 Inventions We Wouldn't Have Without Space Travel
Space travel has given us a wealth of knowledge which has in turn helped us create inventions and technologies that have made human life easier and helped us learn more and explore further into the universe.
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#39  Postby Scot Dutchy » Mar 29, 2019 11:28 am

Just read what you have copied. Which human life? Stop insulting will you. Your knowledge would not fill an egg cup.
What inventions? How to produce food out of fresh air? Space travel is pure egoism.
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Re: Back to the Moon in Five Years?

#40  Postby Svartalf » Mar 29, 2019 11:31 am

which doesn't change the fact it has spawned some interesting innovations that have spread to a wider audience since.
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