Betelgeuse is fainting.

Probably nothing serious but who knows?

Discuss celestial objects and phenomena outside the Earth's atmosphere, Earth-launched satellites and exploratory missions, etc....

Moderators: Calilasseia, ADParker

Betelgeuse is fainting.

#1  Postby newolder » Dec 08, 2019 4:52 pm

Betelgeuse is now the faintest it has been in the last 25 years of observation. The behaviour is described in ATEL #13337 (Astronomer's tele message).

The Fainting of the Nearby Red Supergiant Betelgeuse

...

Betelgeuse and Antares are the two nearest red supergiant core-collapse Type-II supernova (SN II) progenitors. Photometry from this season shows the star has been declining in brightness since October 2019, now reaching a modern all-time low of V = +1.12 mag on 07 December 2019 UT. Betelgeuse undergoes complicated quasi-periodic brightness variations with a dominant period of ~420 +/-15 days. But also Betelgeuse has longer-term (5 - 6 years) and shorter term (100 - 180 days) smaller brightness changes. Currently this is the faintest the star has been during our 25+ years of continuous monitoring and 50 years of photoelectric V-band observations.

... more @ link
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
User avatar
newolder
THREAD STARTER
 
Name: Albert Ross
Posts: 7311
Age: 1
Male

Country: Feudal Estate number 9
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#2  Postby Macdoc » Dec 08, 2019 5:18 pm

I guess there is not a renewed super nova in the works?? :ask:
Not sure of any impact from 620 light years away. Poor Orion losing some glitter.
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
 
Posts: 17156
Age: 73
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#3  Postby newolder » Dec 08, 2019 5:26 pm

I have no idea how a core collapse begins or what that does to the light curve*. "Supergiant drama queen" sprang to mind immediately, though. :roll:

* I'm guessing that the collapse begins when the fusion fuel runs out. This would imply a temporary drop in luminance as the collapse proceeds towards the explosive bounce of the type II supernova. :dunno:
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
User avatar
newolder
THREAD STARTER
 
Name: Albert Ross
Posts: 7311
Age: 1
Male

Country: Feudal Estate number 9
Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#4  Postby tuco » Dec 08, 2019 6:20 pm

Isn't it normal for a dying star?

Somewhere I've read that when it explodes it would be visible, by the naked eye, on Earth during day time, which is pretty cool.
tuco
 
Posts: 15545

Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#5  Postby Macdoc » Dec 08, 2019 6:38 pm

Think it already did that a while back but not sure of the next step.... if I recall a brown dwarf . :popcorn:
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
 
Posts: 17156
Age: 73
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#6  Postby newolder » Dec 08, 2019 6:47 pm

Macdoc wrote:Think it already did that a while back but not sure of the next step.... if I recall a brown dwarf . :popcorn:

Read the first sentence of the tele message snippet above again. It's a candidate to explode as a type II supernova. It's currently more than 10 solar masses and a brown dwarf is not going to be its future state. After detonation, not only will Betelgeuse be visible during the day, but it will rival the Moon for the second-brightest object in the sky.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
User avatar
newolder
THREAD STARTER
 
Name: Albert Ross
Posts: 7311
Age: 1
Male

Country: Feudal Estate number 9
Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#7  Postby Macdoc » Dec 08, 2019 7:09 pm

ah progenitors....dah ...glad we are a ways away tho the light show will be long delayed :(
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
 
Posts: 17156
Age: 73
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#8  Postby hackenslash » Dec 08, 2019 7:13 pm

It will probably result in a black hole at that mass, dependent on how much mass it sheds during nova. The mass limit of a neutron star is the Tolman-Oppenheimer-Volkoff limit, and that's currently thought to be about 2.2 solar masses. It's possible that it could result in a quark star, but these are theoretical only at this point. Beyond that, it's a black hole.

ETA: The mass limit of a brown dwarf is actually tiny. Even Sol will not become a brown dwarf when it dies, but a white dwarf. A brown dwarf is a body whose mass lies between that of the heaviest gas giants and the lightest stars, around 0.4-0.5 solar masses.
User avatar
hackenslash
 
Name: The Other Sweary One
Posts: 21440
Age: 51
Male

Country: Republic of Mancunia
Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#9  Postby Macdoc » Dec 08, 2019 8:38 pm

been too long since I caught up on stellar evolution.
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
 
Posts: 17156
Age: 73
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#10  Postby Matt_B » Dec 08, 2019 10:17 pm

It's not a good time to be from a small planet in the vicinity of it, that's for sure.
User avatar
Matt_B
 
Posts: 4677
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#11  Postby Rumraket » Dec 08, 2019 11:31 pm

Please let this be happening. I want to see this!
Half-Life 3 - I want to believe
User avatar
Rumraket
 
Posts: 13215
Age: 40

Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#12  Postby hackenslash » Dec 09, 2019 12:01 am

I've been doing the sceptic's version of praying for this since I was about nine years old, when I first read about John Flamsteed, who apparently observed the supernova of Cassiopeia A in 1680.
User avatar
hackenslash
 
Name: The Other Sweary One
Posts: 21440
Age: 51
Male

Country: Republic of Mancunia
Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#13  Postby Macdoc » Dec 09, 2019 2:13 am

Please let this be happening. I want to see this!


for all you know it may well have centuries ago.
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
 
Posts: 17156
Age: 73
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#14  Postby Ironclad » Dec 09, 2019 12:21 pm

642.5 light years
For Van Youngman - see you amongst the stardust, old buddy

"If there was no such thing as science, you'd be right " - Sean Lock

"God ....an inventive destroyer" - Broks
User avatar
Ironclad
RS Donator
 
Name: Nudge-Nudge
Posts: 23886
Age: 51
Male

Country: Wink-Wink
Indonesia (id)
Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#15  Postby Matt_B » Dec 09, 2019 11:20 pm

Ironclad wrote:642.5 light years


That's just the midpoint estimate, because it's actually impossible to tell how far it is away within more than about fifty light years. It's too distant for parallax measurements to do better and too highly variable for accurate spectroscopic methods either. Estimates of its size and mass have pretty big error bars too.

I recall us having a very similar discussion here about eight years ago too, where the conclusion was not to wait up on there being a supernova. It might be on the brink of collapsing or have another hundred thousand years left in It. There's just no way to tell how long without knowing what's going on in the core of the star.

Besides, Gamma Velorum is probably going to go first, although that might keep you waiting a few tens of thousand of years too.
User avatar
Matt_B
 
Posts: 4677
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#16  Postby Ironclad » Dec 10, 2019 12:18 am

Oh
For Van Youngman - see you amongst the stardust, old buddy

"If there was no such thing as science, you'd be right " - Sean Lock

"God ....an inventive destroyer" - Broks
User avatar
Ironclad
RS Donator
 
Name: Nudge-Nudge
Posts: 23886
Age: 51
Male

Country: Wink-Wink
Indonesia (id)
Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#17  Postby newolder » Dec 24, 2019 7:19 pm

To see how the current dimming is probably not going to lead to an imminent supernova there's a model of a red giant star (like Betelgeuse) that shows how surface intensity varies over years of time in this cool movie in mp4 format and taken from this talk.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
User avatar
newolder
THREAD STARTER
 
Name: Albert Ross
Posts: 7311
Age: 1
Male

Country: Feudal Estate number 9
Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#18  Postby BlackBart » Dec 24, 2019 7:25 pm

If it kicks off tonight, a lot of people are going to shit themselves.
You don't crucify people! Not on Good Friday! - Harold Shand
User avatar
BlackBart
 
Name: rotten bart
Posts: 12237
Age: 58
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#19  Postby Macdoc » Dec 24, 2019 7:57 pm

hehe - Australia already missed...
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
 
Posts: 17156
Age: 73
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Betelgeuse is fainting.

#20  Postby aufbahrung » Dec 24, 2019 9:00 pm

If there's intelligent life on surrounding stars maybe they'll do something big before the finale rather than go out in a wimper and that might be a signal shit is going down?
ship struck the rocks yesterday, and the worst is yet to be....
User avatar
aufbahrung
 
Name: Your Real Name
Posts: 1412

Country: United Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Next

Return to Astronomy & Space Science

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest