Atheists in Foxholes

A forum for people in the armed forces.

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Re: Atheists in Foxholes

#41  Postby LarianLeQuella » Nov 30, 2011 9:54 pm

Welcome Ivy Mike.

And yes, us zipper suited sun gods DO run this place. :D
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Re: Atheists in Foxholes

#42  Postby IAmTheUniverse » May 27, 2012 6:53 pm

talkietoaster wrote:Is it really that much of an issue that Athiests are in the military in America? I would have thought with the experiences of American fighting with other nations that you don't need to be religious to fight for your country.

Is atheism actively discriminated against in the US military?


Evidenced by all the "prayer luncheons" we are coerced to attend. Soldiers that do not bow their heads during benedictions and other prayer events are often confronted by superiors for not respecting religion.
"Everyone's always asking 'What would Jesus do? What would Jesus do?' They don't want to know so they can do it; they just wanna know so they can tell other people to do it." - George Carlin
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Re: Atheists in Foxholes

#43  Postby talkietoaster » Jun 06, 2012 11:32 am

IAmTheUniverse wrote:
talkietoaster wrote:Is it really that much of an issue that Athiests are in the military in America? I would have thought with the experiences of American fighting with other nations that you don't need to be religious to fight for your country.

Is atheism actively discriminated against in the US military?


Evidenced by all the "prayer luncheons" we are coerced to attend. Soldiers that do not bow their heads during benedictions and other prayer events are often confronted by superiors for not respecting religion.


That sounds terrible, knowing they are not respecting your position either. So they are saying religion comes first then people like you, its disugsting especially within an army the atmosphere working in that condition must be so stressful.
''Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.'' - Smart Person at some time.
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Re: Atheists in Foxholes

#44  Postby FredJackM » Jun 25, 2012 11:54 pm

Err.. Sorry, I completely misunderstood what I was repling to, and so posted a load of BS..
Wish I could see a "delete" tab!
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Re: Atheists in Foxholes

#45  Postby IAmTheUniverse » Jul 12, 2012 10:36 pm

New AIF point - On an enlisted person's record, specifically their Enlisted Records Brief (ERB), the Soldier's religious preference is listed.
I would like to know if this block is x'd out when these ERBs are sent to Department of the Army (DA) centralized promotion boards. If not, a board panel consisting of members that are devout supporters of any faith might find a severe bias against anyone who lists their religious preference as "Atheist" or "No Religious Preference." There might also be discrimination against anyone listing more obscure beliefs, such as "Jedi Knight" or "Satanist."

If these records do go before DA centralized promotion boards without personal information obscured, would atheists really get a fair look?
"Everyone's always asking 'What would Jesus do? What would Jesus do?' They don't want to know so they can do it; they just wanna know so they can tell other people to do it." - George Carlin
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Re: Atheists in Foxholes

#46  Postby Weaver » Jul 13, 2012 1:30 am

Yes, the religion block - and most of the other information in the upper right hand corner of the ERB - is blanked out when the ERB goes in front of a promotion board - at any level.
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Re: Atheists in Foxholes

#47  Postby IAmTheUniverse » Jul 13, 2012 3:14 am

You mean, it is supposed to be at any level. I've seen plenty of packets for promotion and competition boards at BN and BDE level that had ALL information, including SSN. Why should I think that every packet that goes before a DA centralized board is sterile?
"Everyone's always asking 'What would Jesus do? What would Jesus do?' They don't want to know so they can do it; they just wanna know so they can tell other people to do it." - George Carlin
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Re: Atheists in Foxholes

#48  Postby Weaver » Jul 13, 2012 4:38 am

Well, that's a point.

But I made it to SFC with "Atheist" as my religion on my ERB ...
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Re: Atheists in Foxholes

#49  Postby acon44 » Mar 17, 2015 11:17 pm

Atheists-in- foxholes!
Correct me please.
I am 70yrs old. Atheist since 19. Just become aware of groundswell.
Why all the talk about American military? What has Military to do with it?
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Re: Atheists in Foxholes

#50  Postby Varangian » Mar 17, 2015 11:50 pm

Yup, that's a fair question - what has religion to do with the military? A secular state should have a secular army.
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Re: Atheists in Foxholes

#51  Postby Weaver » Mar 18, 2015 2:33 pm

Agreed it should - but in the American military especially, it is officially religion neutral but in actual practice very heavy with religion.

Unit Chaplains are overwhelmingly Protestant Christian, and many feel it is part of their religious duty to push their religion at others.

In addition, there is this long-standing meme that "There are no atheists in foxholes" (thus the name of the forum). The implication is that when one is in mortal danger, one will invariably turn to a god for protection. Though many of us have pointed out that this is bullshit, it persists.

This forum exists for those with military experience to share incidents and experiences related to religion and the military. Feel free to review pasts posts, and to ask further questions if you have any.
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Re: Atheists in Foxholes

#52  Postby NamelessFaceless » Mar 18, 2015 2:47 pm

It's funny this old thread should get bumped up now. I heard someone use this phrase just the other day and I thought of you, Weaver. I was waiting for a table in a restaurant and the man sitting next to me was talking to another guy about their various health issues and one of them said "you know, it's true what they say there's no atheists in foxholes. People turn to God in times of need." And the other one, of course, said "Amen brother!" Use some old geezer voices for that conversation and it will be just like you were there. :lol:
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Re: Atheists in Foxholes

#53  Postby Weaver » Mar 18, 2015 2:51 pm

I was reminded of it on Facebook recently, when someone posted a classic Audie Murphy (WWII hero) quote: "You do the prayin', I'll do the shooting."

I can't finding anything to definitively say what his religion was, but it's pretty clear that he was at the very least a practical agnostic - when the shit hit the fan, he knew the best course of action was to fight for his life, not to pray (AKA do nothing and hope really hard).
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Re: Atheists in Foxholes

#54  Postby NamelessFaceless » Mar 18, 2015 3:07 pm

Weaver wrote:I was reminded of it on Facebook recently, when someone posted a classic Audie Murphy (WWII hero) quote: "You do the prayin', I'll do the shooting."

I can't finding anything to definitively say what his religion was, but it's pretty clear that he was at the very least a practical agnostic - when the shit hit the fan, he knew the best course of action was to fight for his life, not to pray (AKA do nothing and hope really hard).


:lol: That's a really good one! I haven't heard it before. :thumbup:
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Re: Atheists in Foxholes

#55  Postby Weaver » Mar 18, 2015 5:32 pm

Back to why do we need discussion about AiF - one distinct difference between civil society and the military is the chain of command and the adherence to orders - a Commander (of whatever rank) can too easily misuse his authority to impose religion upon his subordinates. This has happened to me, and it is damn near endemic to the US Air Force. Despite clear regulations and law, too many get away with it. A forum for those with experience in the military to share and vent seemed helpful when we first started this forum, though it didn't see much activity in recent years - most of the stories and discussions which would have been relevant ended up in the News and Politics forum.
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