I want a very specific answer.

I dont want answers that discuss:

1) the evolution of red junglefowl
2) origin of life,

exception: unless one of the four conditions of life is particularly important to the answer i do want. in other words, I dont want to be focused on ~3.9 BYA, I want to talk around the time of the evolution of egg-like multicellular reproduction (when was that? are there single cell eggs?)

anyways, I am guessing the egg comes first, because the organism(s) that finally went on to pass the egg laying trait was the first one hatched. that same organism may have been able to have fertile offspring with its non egg laying predecessors, but the egg thing caught on.

now before i get hammered by all you internet bullies, because I know how this site can be, please understand I am only guessing above, and I am looking for answers. As I find them myself I will post them here. I also know there are some smart, imaginative people here, and those who specialize in the stuff I want to know, who can give me a better answer i can get myself.

so finally, the question:

what came first the egg or the egg-layer? the egg can be soft, but it shouldnt be a spore or bacterial kernel (right?), so....Whats the story?

misodyspolypantheist wrote:... now before i get hammered by all you internet bullies, because I know how this site can be ...

Rather than tell you to fuck off with your insults at RatSkep members, I've simply reported your post for trolling.

misodyspolypantheist wrote:I want a very specific answer.

I dont want answers that discuss:

1) the evolution of red junglefowl
2) origin of life,

exception: unless one of the four conditions of life is particularly important to the answer i do want. in other words, I dont want to be focused on ~3.9 BYA, I want to talk around the time of the evolution of egg-like multicellular reproduction (when was that? are there single cell eggs?)

anyways, I am guessing the egg comes first, because the organism(s) that finally went on to pass the egg laying trait was the first one hatched. that same organism may have been able to have fertile offspring with its non egg laying predecessors, but the egg thing caught on.

now before i get hammered by all you internet bullies, because I know how this site can be, please understand I am only guessing above, and I am looking for answers. As I find them myself I will post them here. I also know there are some smart, imaginative people here, and those who specialize in the stuff I want to know, who can give me a better answer i can get myself.

so finally, the question:

what came first the egg or the egg-layer? the egg can be soft, but it shouldnt be a spore or bacterial kernel (right?), so....Whats the story?

Welcome to the forum Joe!

Be sure to have a read of the FUA and enjoy the forum.

As to the claim that members here are 'internet bullies'; Maybe you are confusing bullying with robust rebuttal made against content? Personal attacks against other members is a sanctionable offence. We encourage members to use the report button should they feel they, or others, are being personally attacked.

Now to the answer to your question:

The egg layer.

[/thread]

misodyspolypantheist wrote:I want a very specific answer.

I dont want answers that discuss:

1) the evolution of red junglefowl
2) origin of life,

exception: unless one of the four conditions of life is particularly important to the answer i do want. in other words, I dont want to be focused on ~3.9 BYA, I want to talk around the time of the evolution of egg-like multicellular reproduction (when was that? are there single cell eggs?)

anyways, I am guessing the egg comes first, because the organism(s) that finally went on to pass the egg laying trait was the first one hatched. that same organism may have been able to have fertile offspring with its non egg laying predecessors, but the egg thing caught on.

now before i get hammered by all you internet bullies, because I know how this site can be, please understand I am only guessing above, and I am looking for answers. As I find them myself I will post them here. I also know there are some smart, imaginative people here, and those who specialize in the stuff I want to know, who can give me a better answer i can get myself.

so finally, the question:

what came first the egg or the egg-layer? the egg can be soft, but it shouldnt be a spore or bacterial kernel (right?), so....Whats the story?

An egg is a cell. To begin with the egg and the egg-layer was the very same thing. A cell that made a copy of itself. So the simplest answer is both.

Later multicellular versions still reproduce by making single cells that subsequently develop into multicellular organisms. Some egg-layers simply lay the egg directly into the environment, others retain the egg-cell within their bodies and protect it while it develops, before laying a larger more complex egg with a protective shell and all that. As you can see, there is no clear demarcation between the first egg and the first egg-layer. It's all just cells making copies of themselves.

Rumraket wrote:
An egg is a cell. To begin with the egg and the egg-layer was the very same thing. A cell that made a copy of itself. So the simplest answer is both.

Later multicellular versions still reproduce by making single cells that subsequently develop into multicellular organisms. Some egg-layers simply lay the egg directly into the environment, others retain the egg-cell within their bodies and protect it while it develops, before laying a larger more complex egg with a protective shell and all that. As you can see, there is no clear demarcation between the first egg and the first egg-layer. It's all just cells making copies of themselves.

I notice that the question in his posts asks about 'egg layers', but the topic title is about chickens and eggs.

If we're talking about chickens and eggs; the egg came first. The chickens long lost ancestors were egg layers before chickens evolved.

The faint whiff of hosiery lingers on the breeze.

misodyspolypantheist wrote:
now before I get hammered by all you internet bullies because I know how this site can be

Number One : no one gets bullied just for asking a question

Number Two : anyone who does bully here is punished for it

Number Three : ideas however get no protection from attack

Number Four : I think that the egg came first since logic would suggest this

Number Five : welcome to the forum by the way and hope you stick around

Blackadder wrote:The faint whiff of hosiery lingers on the breeze.

Really?

Blackadder wrote:The faint whiff of hosiery lingers on the breeze.

It seems to me to be a rather robust redolence.

If it helps, misodyspolypantheist, I used to be a creationist and thought this question was a good question. The reason it isn't a good question is due to the very reasons you exclude certain answers. It comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of evolutionary processes, based the evolution definition propaganda creationist outfits spew.

Rumraket wrote:

Blackadder wrote:The faint whiff of hosiery lingers on the breeze.

Really?

And the sock drawer has been slammed firmly shut. Oops.

A chicken is a collection of cells and an egg is a cell (with everything needed to survive) so the egg came first I think….

Which came first, Assholeclast or the sock?

Bugs and seeds go in, egg comes out. Can't explain that.

hackenslash wrote:Which came first, Assholeclast or the sock?

I’m not a sockologist but the one who posted most is probably the puppet master.