Microbes On Enceladus?

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Re: Microbes On Enceladus?

#61  Postby Hermit » Jul 14, 2018 2:29 am

Macdoc wrote:Silicon based entities which we are rapidly developing present a definition problem of life/alive as well....does it need to be wetware to qualify?? :coffee:

Not according to Fred Hoyle, astronomer and author of The Black Cloud, best science fiction I've ever read.
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Re: Microbes On Enceladus?

#62  Postby Macdoc » Jul 14, 2018 10:55 pm

I agree ....I'm quite sure we are on a path to developed silicon life forms.
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Re: Microbes On Enceladus?

#63  Postby DavidMcC » Jul 15, 2018 5:26 pm

Maybe, but not on Enceladus, presumably! On earth, it would have to somehow gain control over sources of both power and silicon, otherwise, we humans have the off switch on this "life" - it's not independent.
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Re: Microbes On Enceladus?

#64  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jul 16, 2018 5:45 am

DavidMcC wrote:Maybe, but not on Enceladus, presumably! On earth, it would have to somehow gain control over sources of both power and silicon, otherwise, we humans have the off switch on this "life" - it's not independent.

The same is true for many other lifeforms that already exist. Are they not independent either?
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Re: Microbes On Enceladus?

#65  Postby juju7 » Jul 16, 2018 7:33 am

Macdoc wrote:Yes ....so dealing with possible alien life could present similar problems but if it walks, slithers or swims up to you and either tries to eat you or feed you.....it's likely alive. :roll:

Mars could give us our first life that is potentially different than earth based even if in degree. Interesting times.

Silicon based entities which we are rapidly developing present a definition problem of life/alive as well....does it need to be wetware to qualify?? :coffee:


Silicon on its own does not present interesting possibilities for complex self replicating molecules. Silicon plus carbon does, and the compounds are thermally stable over a greater range than carbon only range: https://www.astrobio.net/news-exclusive ... ife-grows/
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Re: Microbes On Enceladus?

#66  Postby Cito di Pense » Jul 16, 2018 8:19 am

juju7 wrote:
Macdoc wrote:Yes ....so dealing with possible alien life could present similar problems but if it walks, slithers or swims up to you and either tries to eat you or feed you.....it's likely alive. :roll:

Mars could give us our first life that is potentially different than earth based even if in degree. Interesting times.

Silicon based entities which we are rapidly developing present a definition problem of life/alive as well....does it need to be wetware to qualify?? :coffee:


Silicon on its own does not present interesting possibilities for complex self replicating molecules. Silicon plus carbon does, and the compounds are thermally stable over a greater range than carbon only range: https://www.astrobio.net/news-exclusive ... ife-grows/


Another click-bait article full of hype aimed at wanna-be exobiologists.

A diatom is not a silicon-based life form. It's not even a carbon-silicon hybrid as far as metabolism goes. It sequesters silica from its environment to use in its exoskeleton. Carbon-silicon chemistry (as such) is synthesized, so we know something about the conditions required to manifest it naturally. If it occurred naturally, we'd have heard about it. Silicon in nature is not expected in its reduced form. It takes technnology to reduce silicon from silicates. Silicates (compounds combining oxygen with silicon) are widespread in nature, in case you've never seen a rock.
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Re: Microbes On Enceladus?

#67  Postby truelgbt » Sep 12, 2018 8:52 pm

This question initially peaked my interest but then came the pessimism:
1) How sure are they that they got the exact correct formula for the moon's environmental makeup? Any small deviation could be a setup for error.
2) The presence of organic molecules and ice alone is insufficient for life. I suspect there are many such entities in the vast universe (planets, moons, etc) all of which have no life whatsoever.
3) What about the effects of radiation (solar or otherwise) on the ability to sustain life?

And the list goes on...

This wouldn't be the first time researchers made a big goof and it wasn't revealed until decades later......just sayin'
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Re: Microbes On Enceladus?

#68  Postby newolder » Sep 13, 2018 8:52 am

1: THE CHEMISTRY OF ENCELADUS’ OCEAN FROM A CONVERGENCE OF CASSINI DATA AND THEORETICAL GEOCHEMISTRY.
2: Define "life".
3: Also depends upon the definition of "life".

What "big goof" has been made here? :dunno:
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Re: Microbes On Enceladus?

#69  Postby Cito di Pense » Sep 13, 2018 8:57 am

truelgbt wrote:This question initially peaked my interest


I don't assess your literacy as being high enough to qualify your input on this problem. The first order of business is to be able to understand and discuss what you read in a literate fashion. Your approach to spelling resembles Platko's.

truelgbt wrote:How sure are they that they got the exact correct formula


What's the deal, here? Is "exact correct" more correct than just "correct"? On beyond Zebra!!!! Anyway, what you need here is an adverb. Just sayin'.

truelgbt wrote:What about the effects of radiation (solar or otherwise) on the ability to sustain life?


The ability to sustain life? You either have it, or you don't. It's not a matter of degree, and can't be developed, you know, purposefully. In other breaking news, Socrates is the problem. What is "otherwise" from solar in this neighborhood? Jupiter? Just say 'Jupiter'. Oh, shit. Enceladus is a moon of Saturn.
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Re: Microbes On Enceladus?

#70  Postby juju7 » Sep 17, 2018 1:33 pm

Cito di Pense wrote: Jupiter? Just say 'Jupiter'. Oh, shit. Enceladus is a moon of Saturn.

Do you know the meaning of 'prat'?
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