HughMcB wrote:

katja z wrote:How does one think outside the universe?

The same way you apply Laplace transforms outside of the universe I guess.

Well, I suppose that would be one possible instance of thinking outside the universe (that is assuming applying Laplace transforms requires thinking).

*googles "Laplace transform"*

Mazille wrote:

Grace wrote:I think we should not be interfering unless something is life threatening or disfiguring.

While I personally agree, I must ask: How is having two sets of genitalia, or some kind of mixed version of genitalia not "disfiguring" in the commonly used sense?

That's kind of what the person is born with. I mean, it's not "right," like people with definite genders, but it belongs to that individual and I have a hard time seeing that making a life-changing decision on behalf of a child is ethical. It's hard to relate, but my intersex friend says that it's genital mutilation and I can't see myself disagreeing.

I would think that the big problem with it is when parents or caregivers arbitrarily choose a gender, and it happens to be the wrong one.

Tollens wrote:

Mazille wrote:

Grace wrote:I think we should not be interfering unless something is life threatening or disfiguring.

While I personally agree, I must ask: How is having two sets of genitalia, or some kind of mixed version of genitalia not "disfiguring" in the commonly used sense?

That's kind of what the person is born with. I mean, it's not "right," like people with definite genders, but it belongs to that individual and I have a hard time seeing that making a life-changing decision on behalf of a child is ethical. It's hard to relate, but my intersex friend says that it's genital mutilation and I can't see myself disagreeing.

See, that is why I compared the dexamethasone treatment with surgery. I can definitely see how surgery could count as mutilation. But influencing fetal development so a "normal" set of genital is developed?

I would think that the big problem with it is when parents or caregivers arbitrarily choose a gender, and it happens to be the wrong one.

Generally speaking, I agree that it is a big problem and I'd be extremely reluctant to do so. Still, the degree of arbitrariness involved varies from case to case, doesn't it? From what I understand, congenital adrenal hyperplasia only affects genital development in female (XX) children, who still go on to develop a "normal" set of internal reproductive organs, so it's not as if the decision in this case is totally arbitrary. Other cases, especially where atypical chromosome combinations are involved, are much less clearcut, and trying to fit such a child into one of the standard genders really can backfire.

Grace wrote:epepke, I've been praised for my creative thinking ability. So, if you THINK I'm going to be shamed and humiliated by you, you've got another THINK coming.

Actually, I predict that you are going to be incredibly impressed with yourself for the rest of your life.

I guess the cliche "thinking outside the box" is much more acceptable than trying something new such as, "thinking outside the universe." Sorry you all got so horribly confused. Knock yourselves out!

Grace wrote:I guess the cliche "thinking outside the box" is much more acceptable than trying something new such as, "thinking outside the universe." Sorry you all got so horribly confused. Knock yourselves out!

I think you were thinking of this kind of universe rather than this kind.

WRONG! No points for you!

You're not being very helpful there.

Boring! I'm going back to FB... see ya!