RNA World getting closer...

Evolution, Natural Selection, Medicine, Psychology & Neuroscience.

Moderators: Calilasseia, Mazille

RNA World getting closer...

 
 

RNA World getting closer...

#1  Postby hackenslash » Aug 17, 2011 8:14 am

ImageImage
User avatar
hackenslash
THREAD STARTER
 
Name: The Other Sweary One
Posts: 9087
Age: 42
Male

Country: Republic of Mancunia

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#2  Postby Animavore » Aug 17, 2011 9:12 am

Another win for naturalism.
"Even today a good many distinguished minds seem unable to accept or to even understand that from a source of noise natural selection could quite unaided have drawn all the music of the biosperes."
- Jacques Monod.
User avatar
Animavore
 
Name: Nasty Hombre
Posts: 16472
Age: 33
Male

Ireland (ie)

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#3  Postby tnjrp » Aug 17, 2011 9:14 am

Image

Ermm. That is,
:popcorn:

Have to read the article a bit later.
The dog, the dog, he's at it again!
User avatar
tnjrp
 
Posts: 3587
Age: 46
Male

Finland (fi)

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#4  Postby chairman bill » Aug 17, 2011 9:23 am

Yeah, but, they haven't found the consciousness particle yet
Image
The truth may be out there, but the lies are inside your head. Terry Pratchett
User avatar
chairman bill
 
Posts: 13029
Male

Country: UK
United Kingdom (uk)

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#5  Postby Animavore » Aug 17, 2011 9:27 am

It's C all the way down :coffee:
"Even today a good many distinguished minds seem unable to accept or to even understand that from a source of noise natural selection could quite unaided have drawn all the music of the biosperes."
- Jacques Monod.
User avatar
Animavore
 
Name: Nasty Hombre
Posts: 16472
Age: 33
Male

Ireland (ie)

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#6  Postby Rumraket » Aug 17, 2011 9:42 am

On a related theme, Szostak et al. just published a new paper demonstrating the possibility of evolving mixed RNA-DNA sequences with function.

Evolution of functional nucleic acids in the presence of nonheritable backbone heterogeneity
Simon G. Trevino, Na Zhang, Mark P. Elenko, Andrej Lupták, and Jack W. Szostak
Abstract
Multiple lines of evidence support the hypothesis that the early evolution of life was dominated by RNA, which can both transfer information from generation to generation through replication directed by base-pairing, and carry out biochemical activities by folding into functional structures. To understand how life emerged from prebiotic chemistry we must therefore explain the steps that led to the emergence of the RNA world, and in particular, the synthesis of RNA. The generation of pools of highly pure ribonucleotides on the early Earth seems unlikely, but the presence of alternative nucleotides would support the assembly of nucleic acid polymers containing nonheritable backbone heterogeneity. We suggest that homogeneous monomers might not have been necessary if populations of heterogeneous nucleic acid molecules could evolve reproducible function. For such evolution to be possible, function would have to be maintained despite the repeated scrambling of backbone chemistry from generation to generation. We havetested this possibility in a simplified model system, by using a T7 RNA polymerase variant capable of transcribing nucleic acids that contain an approximately 1∶1 mixture of deoxy- and ribonucleotides. We readily isolated nucleotide-binding aptamers by utilizing an in vitro selection process that shuffles the order of deoxy- andribonucleotides in each round. We describe two such RNA/DNA mosaic nucleic acid aptamers that specifically bind ATP and GTP, respectively. We conclude that nonheritable variations in nucleicacid backbone structure may not have posed an insurmountable barrier to the emergence of functionality in early nucleic acids.


Some interesting sections:
We suggest several different ways in which functional nucleic acids with heterogeneous backbones [mosaic nucleic acids (MNA)] (23) could evolve through repeated cycles of replication and selection. Some folded structures may simply be unaffected by a particular type of chemical heterogeneity, and thus might form equally well whether made of one polymer, or a second polymer, or a mosaic of the two. Alternatively, a backbone functional group from one polymer might be required at only one or a few specific positions in the folded structure, in which case a significant fraction of backbone-scrambled progeny would retain activity. More interesting is the possibility that functional groups from one polymer would be required at one or more positions, whereas different functional groups from the second polymer would be required at other specific positions. In this case, neither polymer alone could access the functional structure, but a fraction of mosaic transcripts could be functional. To test the idea that functional structures could evolve from mosaic nucleic acids, despite the presence of nonheritable variation in the sugar-phosphate backbone, we undertook the selection of RNA/DNA mosaic aptamers that recognize nucleotide ligands. We found that ATP- and GTP-binding aptamers emerged from mosaic libraries as easily as from homogeneous RNA or DNA libraries, although the aptamers resulting from the mosaic selections exhibited weaker ligand affinity.


Discussion
We have identified two MNA nucleotide-binding aptamers by in vitro selection. Each selection round placed selective pressure for functional binding on MNA, which contained a mixed, nearly equivalent fraction of deoxyribose or ribose sugars in the sugarphosphate backbone. As a consequence, binders that were dependent on fixed sugar arrangements were strongly selected against. Under these conditions, aptamer sequences that retain function despite variations in most or all sugar positions were retrieved. We conclude that, far from representing an evolutionary deadend, MNA could have provided a valuable source of heritable functionality for early organisms...


... We show that MNA aptamer sequences retain function despite the substitution of many, or all positions for deoxy- or ribonucleotides (Fig. 3B, Fig. 4B, Table 1). Other studies have indicated that similar or identical DNA and RNA sequences can share a common function. For example, in vitro selection studies have identified a DNA aptamer sequence that binds heme and retains some activity when synthesized as RNA (38). Similarly, DNA ver sions of some in vitro-selected RNA aptamers retain binding activity toward their targets (39). Additionally, a ribozyme ligase sequence was evolved into an active deoxyribozyme by only a few mutations (40). Finally, classical studies of various DNA-RNA chNA versions of the hammerhead ribozyme have demonstrated that some DNA substitutions can increase (41) or decrease activity (42). These results lend experimental support to genetic transfer hypotheses (43, 44). We suggest that MNA might facilitate such genetic transitions, e.g., as RNA-based cells evolved the ability to make DNA, they may have needed to tolerate the incorporation of deoxynucleotides into functional RNA molecules...

:thumbup:
Cool stuff. Basically, whether the RNA world really was the first genetic system or not, these experiements lend some support to the hypothesis that there once was an RNA-world, and that the DNA-world of today gradually evolved from it.
User avatar
Rumraket
 
Posts: 3964
Age: 31
Male

Denmark (dk)

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#7  Postby DanDare » Aug 17, 2011 1:30 pm

Oooh, this conversation goes in my goody bag. As soon as one sound abiogenesis pathway is finally demonstrated, finding out which one actually led to the present day is not as important and may never be known. Ive been keeping an eye on Szostak's work for a while now. Its great.
Atheist. Ozzie.
Image
User avatar
DanDare
RS Donator
 
Posts: 1817
Age: 50
Male

Australia (au)

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#8  Postby Rumraket » Aug 17, 2011 1:51 pm

DanDare wrote:Oooh, this conversation goes in my goody bag. As soon as one sound abiogenesis pathway is finally demonstrated, finding out which one actually led to the present day is not as important and may never be known. Ive been keeping an eye on Szostak's work for a while now. Its great.

Then I'd recommend this page : http://genetics.mgh.harvard.edu/szostakweb/publications.html
User avatar
Rumraket
 
Posts: 3964
Age: 31
Male

Denmark (dk)

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#9  Postby HughMcB » Aug 17, 2011 2:32 pm

Might steal this for the facebook group, good read Hack!
"Call Kenny Loggins...'cuz you're in the Danger Zone" - Archer

>>>CLICK HERE FOR SUPER SPECIAL TREAT<<<
User avatar
HughMcB
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 15088
Age: 27
Male

Country: Canada
Ireland (ie)

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#10  Postby GenesForLife » Aug 17, 2011 2:41 pm

DanDare wrote:Oooh, this conversation goes in my goody bag. As soon as one sound abiogenesis pathway is finally demonstrated, finding out which one actually led to the present day is not as important and may never be known. Ive been keeping an eye on Szostak's work for a while now. Its great.


Szostak is awesome, he even replied to an email. :mrgreen:
GenesForLife
 
Posts: 2630
Age: 22

United Kingdom (uk)

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#11  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 18, 2011 9:55 am

:popcorn: to read later!
Science is the worst form of inquiry into reality, except all the others that have been tried.
Religion = Mass Stockholm Syndrome.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods.
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 10450
Age: 36
Male

Country: Thailand

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#12  Postby lordshipmayhem » Aug 18, 2011 10:14 pm

Animavore wrote:It's C all the way down :coffee:

Yes. C++ doesn't show up until much later. :popcorn:
"It is not science that is arrogant: science can be defined as ‘humility before the facts’ — it is those who refuse to submit to testing and make unsubstantiated claims that are arrogant. Arrogant and unjust." - Stephen Fry
User avatar
lordshipmayhem
 
Posts: 1513
Age: 51
Male

Country: Canada
Canada (ca)

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#13  Postby tnjrp » Aug 19, 2011 6:04 am

Yep. It used to be

world
4 x elephant
turtle
turtle
turtle
...

but now it's

world
2 x +
c
c
c
...
The dog, the dog, he's at it again!
User avatar
tnjrp
 
Posts: 3587
Age: 46
Male

Finland (fi)

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#14  Postby byofrcs » Aug 21, 2011 1:02 am

Be funny if a Patent troll got in first with a patent on the actual pathway. Then they can say...

"All your base belong to us."
Study philosophy to learn to ask the right questions, study religion to learn to listen to the wrong answers.
It seems you teach a child your religion so they can recognize your enemies.
User avatar
byofrcs
Moderator
 
Name: Lincoln
Posts: 5558
Age: 48
Male

Country: Tax, sleep, identity ?
European Union (eur)

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#15  Postby Calilasseia » Aug 30, 2011 9:27 pm

I tried downloading that, and got "the file is damaged and could not be repaired". And the same happens when I go to his home page and try downloading the file from there.
Image
User avatar
Calilasseia
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 8190
Age: 50
Male

Country: England
United Kingdom (uk)

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#16  Postby hackenslash » Aug 30, 2011 11:09 pm

Check your PMs.
ImageImage
User avatar
hackenslash
THREAD STARTER
 
Name: The Other Sweary One
Posts: 9087
Age: 42
Male

Country: Republic of Mancunia

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#17  Postby Grace » Sep 01, 2011 3:54 am

chairman bill wrote, "Yeah, but, they haven't found the consciousness particle yet."

It's not a particle. It's multiple tracks with thousands of different neurotransmitters working simultaneously in many different parts of the brain.

Check out this journal:
http://www.mitpressjournals.org/loi/jocn

Type in the search field 'consciousness.'
Grace
 
Posts: 1484


Re: RNA World getting closer...

#18  Postby lpetrich » Nov 14, 2011 6:31 am

Some more RNA-world stuff. Some enzyme cofactors have bits of RNA in them, and that RNA may reasonably be interpreted as vestigial features of the RNA world. Cofactors like:

ATP, cyclic AMP, etc.
NAD, NADP (niacin, vitamin B3)
FAD, FMN (riboflavin, vitamin B2)
Coenzyme A (pantothenate, vitamin B5)
Cyanocobalmin (vitamin B12)

Ribozymes that use redox cofactors -- Pure and Applied Chemistry, 2004, Volume 76, No. 7-8, pp. 1525-1536 (no paywall for full paper)
Redox = reduction-oxidation; a lot of energy metabolism and biosynthesis involves redox reactions.

This means that ribozymes can use some of these cofactors without the assistance of proteins, something which is further evidence of the feasibility of the RNA world.
lpetrich
 
Posts: 187
Age: 51
Male

United States (us)

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#19  Postby Darwinsbulldog » Nov 14, 2011 6:54 am

Rumraket wrote:
DanDare wrote:Oooh, this conversation goes in my goody bag. As soon as one sound abiogenesis pathway is finally demonstrated, finding out which one actually led to the present day is not as important and may never be known. Ive been keeping an eye on Szostak's work for a while now. Its great.

Then I'd recommend this page : http://genetics.mgh.harvard.edu/szostakweb/publications.html

What are these bastards trying to do? Making scientific papers free for all! :evilgrin: :thumbup: :dance: :clap: :clap:
DBD is a fun username. I do not imagine myself as a reincarnation of T.H. Huxley, and with respect, neither should you.
User avatar
Darwinsbulldog
 
Name: Robert Hunter
Posts: 3193
Age: 57
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)

Re: RNA World getting closer...

 
 

Re: RNA World getting closer...

#20  Postby jaydot » Nov 16, 2011 11:43 pm

:coffee:
User avatar
jaydot
 
Posts: 1157


Next

Return to Biological Sciences

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest