Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#21  Postby Sendraks » May 23, 2016 1:37 pm

jamest wrote:
I've already mentioned it. I was under the impression that each gene or combination thereof corresponded to particular biological structures and/or functions within an organism. Is that correct?


I apologise Jamest, this is a reasonable question to ask. As I understand it (and my understanding is poor and based on limited reading) is that there is a lot to do with how genes interact with each other and recombine, that explains the complexity of functions within the smaller number of genes that homo sapiens possess. I hope someone with more knowledge of this can come along and explain.

However, this explanation alone doesn't entirely address your further question of...

jamest wrote: If so, then I wonder why/how small and relatively simple organisms could have many more genes than larger and much more complex organisms. That's all I'm curious about here.


At a guess, I think it is because a lot of that genetic information is probably doing nothing. The gene sequence is not at the point of recombination and interaction between the different genes, to create more complex functions.

Hopefully someone better educated. etc etc
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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#22  Postby logical bob » May 23, 2016 1:40 pm

jamest wrote:I've already mentioned it. I was under the impression that each gene or combination thereof corresponded to particular biological structures and/or functions within an organism. Is that correct? If so, then I wonder why/how small and relatively simple organisms could have many more genes than larger and much more complex organisms. That's all I'm curious about here.

That's not entirely correct. Large sections of the genome are spam which doesn't contribute to the development of the organism. It's built up over the time being copied over and over again, with occasional copying errors increasing the quantity of spam. As long as it doesn't impede the function of the genetic material that does contribute to development it will continue being replicated.

Also, viruses reproduce by hijacking a host cell and making it replicate their genetic material. Sometimes viral genetic material is incorporated into the host DNA on a permanent basis and, like the spam, it goes on being replicated. These are called proviruses.

The addition of spam and proviruses into a genome is useful in telling the extent to which different genomes are related, since they enter at a given point on the evolutionary tree and are present in some branches but not others.
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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#23  Postby SkyMutt » May 23, 2016 3:27 pm

jamest wrote:
Sendraks wrote:How about you just cut straight to the point about what the problem here is for you.

I've already mentioned it. I was under the impression that each gene or combination thereof corresponded to particular biological structures and/or functions within an organism. Is that correct? If so, then I wonder why/how small and relatively simple organisms could have many more genes than larger and much more complex organisms. That's all I'm curious about here.


If you're willing to spend the time, you can begin to understand what genes actually do by exploring the articles at "Gene Expression and Regulation" | Nature. The opening essay there is very good, even if you don't get into the actual articles.
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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#24  Postby jamest » May 23, 2016 3:42 pm

Okay, thanks gents.
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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#25  Postby GrahamH » May 23, 2016 11:17 pm

And they are taking over!

Swarms of Octopus Are Taking Over the Oceans

Something strange is happening to the oceans. As coral reefs wither and fisheries collapse, octopuses are multiplying like mad. As soon as they perceive weakness, they will amass an army and invade the land, too!

http://gizmodo.com/swarms-of-octopus-ar ... 1777790453


Because they haz skilz



And they are sending their machines against us!

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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#26  Postby jamest » May 23, 2016 11:23 pm

Quite worrying, as it's not as though they're 'armless.
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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#27  Postby crank » May 24, 2016 6:32 am

Calilasseia wrote:Indeed, even the simple measure of genome size is no indicator of "complexity", a matter that PZ Myers covered at some length elsewhere. For example, here are some sample genome sizes, arising from the sequencing data (numbers below are the numbers of base pairs in the genome in question):

Polychaos dubium (Single celled amoeba) : 670,000,000,000


Did the guy that named this thing work on Avatar? That's a what you call a real fuckton of genes, almost 200 times human count.
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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#28  Postby Calilasseia » May 25, 2016 1:18 am

Well it's yet to be determined how much of that huge tract of DNA consists of gene coding regions. 99% of it could be duplicated junk - dead stretches of viral insertions, pseudogene debris and the like.
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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#29  Postby Onyx8 » May 25, 2016 2:43 am

I'va always thought if octopuses didn't die after procreating but hung around to teach their offspring they would have taken over the world.
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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#30  Postby the_5th_ape » Jun 30, 2016 7:15 am



:o :o :o :o
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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#31  Postby rplatell » Jun 30, 2016 10:48 am

Creationists are now actively propagating the claim that octopuses are aliens
Posted by PZ Myers on September 9, 2015

I saw it coming. The octopus genome was sequenced, and one scientist gushed about the differences between cephalopods and vertebrates, calling them “alien”, and that became the news. People really need to read the paper before reporting on it, because it emphasizes the relatedness of octopuses to other animals.

But the creationists don’t care about facts. They’re motivated to lie.

The latest: Darwinism Versus the Octopus: An Evolutionary Dilemma.

No, it’s really not.

The author, Eric Metaxas, cites his friend, the intelligent design creationist Stephen Meyer, so it’s no wonder he gets everything wrong. Really, read the paper, rather than relying on second or third or fourth hand anecdotes filtered through other creationists, and you wouldn’t say stupid things like this.

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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#32  Postby Gord » Jun 30, 2016 11:19 am

rplatell wrote:
Really, read the paper, rather than relying on second or third or fourth hand anecdotes filtered through other creationists, and you wouldn’t say stupid things like this.

continues...

:)

The paper: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v5 ... 14668.html

I'm pretty sure those on the lower branches of the human tree can read that paper and still come up with "it wuz ay-lee-unz!"
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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#33  Postby Willie71 » Jul 02, 2016 2:50 am

Sendraks wrote:
jamest wrote:I am indeed very surprised given the relative simplicity of such things.


It is not a given that lots of genes = more complex lifeform. At least, that is what research shows us.


Rice has a lot more genes than we do. doesnt mean rivpce is better than us, but I tend to think it is, :thumbup:
well, the 'mericuns chose alien, rather than predator. The rest of the world has to burn now.
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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#34  Postby Darwinsbulldog » Jul 02, 2016 4:35 am

jamest wrote:Have those other creatures got lots of genes? I'm wondering where the excess genes came from.

The octopussy god.
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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#35  Postby crank » Jul 02, 2016 7:09 am

the_5th_ape wrote:

:o :o :o :o

Wow, that's really amazing. I knew about all the shit the cuttlefish could do, and I know they're closely related, but I hadn't known there were octopi that did such things. This thread is about the genes in a '2-spot' octopus, just think what the 'g-spot' octopus could do. Maybe the name 'octopus' gives us a hint.
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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#36  Postby crank » Jul 02, 2016 7:17 am

Here is a HD video with some mimic octopus footage. Look at the first example, there's a human head on it!
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Re: Scientists declare that octopuses are basically aliens

#37  Postby crank » Jul 02, 2016 7:17 am

Here is a HD video with some mimic octopus footage. Look at the first example, there's a human head on it!



A docu on the cuttlefish
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