Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

The accumulation of small heritable changes within populations over time.

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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#101  Postby DavidMcC » Oct 02, 2017 2:13 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:You really DON'T like criticism, do you?
There! Now, you've made the thread all about you. Alternative evolutionary paths is out the window. I hope you like it.

Actually, you derailed the thread by injecting yourself in a situation involving two other members.

I'm entitled to comment, because there are no private conversations on this site, other than by PM, even although you evidently think there are.
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#102  Postby Zadocfish2 » Oct 02, 2017 6:30 pm

Greyman wrote:
Zadocfish2 wrote:This thread went in kind of a weird direction since I last checked it...

Weren't we talking about evolutionary paths? (also it's cool how apparently proteins change and adapt with time in a way similar to DNA but, presumably, using different mechanics)
Uh... They are not independent. The DNA contains genes that encode production of protein molecules

DNA sites transcribe mRNA strands, which travel from the nucleus through the cytoplasm to ribosome organelles where translation of the triplet code instructs rRNA and tRNA construct a polypeptide.


See, I didn't know that.

All this about genome markers is kinda over my head, to be honest... :scratch: But, it is interesting! All life is related in interesting ways, and different in even more interesting ways, and that's what makes biology so fascinating whether I'm educated enough to get the exact mechanics or not.
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#103  Postby theropod » Oct 04, 2017 12:11 am

No need to get the mechanics. What is really going to blow hour mind is endogenous retroviral infections which leave markers on our chromosomes. These markers are retained across generations and are made a permanent part of the genome. We share a shit ton of these retroviral insertions which we share which chimps on the same locations and on the same chromosome. The odds of these inserted markers appearing as they do in both humans and chimps without us sharing a common ancestor is astronomical.

Genetics alone provides us enough evidence to validate the modern version of the theory of evolution, and yet we have the fossil record, direct observation from the natural world of new species arising and extensive lab testing which all operate in a conciliatory manner to confirm evolution over and over.

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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#104  Postby DavidMcC » Oct 04, 2017 3:15 pm

:thumbup:
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#105  Postby DavidMcC » Oct 04, 2017 3:23 pm

theropod wrote:No need to get the mechanics. What is really going to blow hour mind is endogenous retroviral infections which leave markers on our chromosomes. These markers are retained across generations and are made a permanent part of the genome. ...

Surely, a marker that happens to interfere with the functioning of a gene (be it RNA or coding) could be disadvantageous, and therefore get selected out over many generations?
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#106  Postby theropod » Oct 04, 2017 11:54 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
theropod wrote:No need to get the mechanics. What is really going to blow hour mind is endogenous retroviral infections which leave markers on our chromosomes. These markers are retained across generations and are made a permanent part of the genome. ...

Surely, a marker that happens to interfere with the functioning of a gene (be it RNA or coding) could be disadvantageous, and therefore get selected out over many generations?


Only if the altered gene hindered reproductive success. Even a mutation that caused cancer by age 40 in the majority of humans wouldn't have an adverse effect on survival of the species. These markers are nothing more than a sequence that has a different set of chemical signatures than would otherwise be. These sequences have been filtered over a span of time approaching 6 million years, and natural selection hasn't targeted them for filtering so far. Apparently these retroviral insertions into our genome wasn't much of an issue as there are nearly 8 billion of and counting.

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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#107  Postby Fallible » Oct 05, 2017 8:06 am

DavidMcC wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:You really DON'T like criticism, do you?
There! Now, you've made the thread all about you. Alternative evolutionary paths is out the window. I hope you like it.

Actually, you derailed the thread by injecting yourself in a situation involving two other members.

I'm entitled to comment, because there are no private conversations on this site, other than by PM, even although you evidently think there are.


Thomas didn't say you weren't entitled to comment. He corrected your error of blaming someone else for the derail when it was you that did it.
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#108  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Oct 05, 2017 8:37 am

DavidMcC wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:You really DON'T like criticism, do you?
There! Now, you've made the thread all about you. Alternative evolutionary paths is out the window. I hope you like it.

Actually, you derailed the thread by injecting yourself in a situation involving two other members.

I'm entitled to comment, because there are no private conversations on this site, other than by PM, even although you evidently think there are.

Still struggling with basic reading comprehension I see as your response does not actually adress anything I said. :roll:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#109  Postby DavidMcC » Oct 05, 2017 10:10 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:You really DON'T like criticism, do you?
There! Now, you've made the thread all about you. Alternative evolutionary paths is out the window. I hope you like it.

Actually, you derailed the thread by injecting yourself in a situation involving two other members.

I'm entitled to comment, because there are no private conversations on this site, other than by PM, even although you evidently think there are.

Still struggling with basic reading comprehension I see as your response does not actually adress anything I said. :roll:

:roll:
:crazy:
I suspect that this just another attempt to get me banned for hitting back?
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#110  Postby BlackBart » Oct 05, 2017 11:33 am

DavidMcC wrote:
I suspect that this just another attempt to get me banned for hitting back?


DavidMcC wrote:There! Now, you've made the thread all about you.
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#111  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Oct 05, 2017 11:39 am

DavidMcC wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Actually, you derailed the thread by injecting yourself in a situation involving two other members.

I'm entitled to comment, because there are no private conversations on this site, other than by PM, even although you evidently think there are.

Still struggling with basic reading comprehension I see as your response does not actually adress anything I said. :roll:

:roll:
:crazy:
I suspect that this just another attempt to get me banned for hitting back?

I suspect you cannot see beyond your persecution complex as I've repeatedly said that I have no interest in seeing you banned.
I've also explained multiple times that you are responsible for your own behaviour.
And finally, your response is a complete non-sequitur. I pointed out that your response demonstrates you haven't read and/or understood my post, because I did not say anything about entitlement or what you're allowed to post.
I merely pointed out that you started the derail, not the person you're accusing.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#112  Postby Shrunk » Oct 05, 2017 1:18 pm

Here lie the mutilated remains of Shrunk's thread.

:goodnight:
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#113  Postby Calilasseia » Oct 05, 2017 1:48 pm

theropod wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
theropod wrote:No need to get the mechanics. What is really going to blow hour mind is endogenous retroviral infections which leave markers on our chromosomes. These markers are retained across generations and are made a permanent part of the genome. ...

Surely, a marker that happens to interfere with the functioning of a gene (be it RNA or coding) could be disadvantageous, and therefore get selected out over many generations?


Only if the altered gene hindered reproductive success. Even a mutation that caused cancer by age 40 in the majority of humans wouldn't have an adverse effect on survival of the species. These markers are nothing more than a sequence that has a different set of chemical signatures than would otherwise be. These sequences have been filtered over a span of time approaching 6 million years, and natural selection hasn't targeted them for filtering so far. Apparently these retroviral insertions into our genome wasn't much of an issue as there are nearly 8 billion of and counting.

RS


Of course, the fun part about ERVs (endogenous retroviral insertions) is that they can also track speciation events. For example, species A acquires some retroviral insertions, and these become a part of the population heritage of that species. At some later time, species A undergoes a population split, followed by allopatric speciation, resulting in the emergence of species B and C. Species B acquires its own additional retroviral insertions, as does species C. But, the new retroviral insertions acquired by species B, are invariably different from those acquired by species C. Even if the same retrovirus infects both species B and C, its insertions in those species will almost always be different.

This is because retroviral insertions do not target specific loci within the genome, but instead target short nucleotide sequences that are replicated right across the genome. If a locus is targeted, then there is only one insertion point available to the retrovirus, which limits its options rather a lot. If insertable sequences are targeted instead, the retrovirus has thousands of options open to it once it arrives, and can simply latch on to whichever insertable sequence happens to present itself most conveniently at the time. Insertions that impact reproductive fitness end up being removed by selection, and insertions that are neutral in this regard continue being disseminated across generations.

Consequently, one means of determining which organisms share a common ancestor, is to examine if they share retroviral insertions at the same loci. If they do, those insertions had to be inherited from a common ancestor, because the probability of inheriting a shared ERV at the same locus from a common ancestor, is massively greater than chance inheritance from different infections after a speciation event. In fact, the probability of inheritance from a common ancestor is 1 - to use the jargon from statistics, it almost surely will happen. If you have multiple shared loci present in two species, then that probability of chance inheritance becomes vanishingly small, whilst the probability of inheritance from a common ancestor remains 1.
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#114  Postby theropod » Oct 05, 2017 3:49 pm

As usual, well said. Better than I by far.

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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#115  Postby DavidMcC » Oct 06, 2017 4:02 pm

RS, I can't help but think that general insults, like "your bullshit comments" conceal a hidden agenda.
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#116  Postby Sendraks » Oct 06, 2017 4:14 pm

DavidMcC wrote:RS, I can't help but think that general insults, like "your bullshit comments" conceal a hidden agenda.


Why should anyone care what you "can't help" yourself from thinking?
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#117  Postby DavidMcC » Oct 06, 2017 5:03 pm

Sendraks wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:RS, I can't help but think that general insults, like "your bullshit comments" conceal a hidden agenda.


Why should anyone care what you "can't help" yourself from thinking?

In that case,, why should I give a rat's arse what you think?
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#118  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Oct 06, 2017 5:09 pm

DavidMcC wrote:RS, I can't help but think that general insults, like "your bullshit comments" conceal a hidden agenda.

I know. Have you considered that this might be an issue on your part rather than the rest of the world?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#119  Postby Sendraks » Oct 06, 2017 5:09 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
In that case,, why should I give a rat's arse what you think?


Absolutely!
So why bother getting into in the first place? It is pointless speculation David and serves no useful purpose on moving the discussion forward.
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Re: Study find 100's of possible alternative evolutionary paths

#120  Postby DavidMcC » Oct 06, 2017 5:18 pm

Sendraks wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
In that case,, why should I give a rat's arse what you think?


Absolutely!
So why bother getting into in the first place? It is pointless speculation David and serves no useful purpose on moving the discussion forward.

You are derailing this thread as much as anyone, by adding fuel to the fire.
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