This book is giving me an aneurism

professor assigns pseudoscience as reading material

Evolution, Natural Selection, Medicine, Psychology & Neuroscience.

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This book is giving me an aneurism

#1  Postby geneticallydead » Feb 15, 2017 7:55 pm

Did my undergrad in biology/zoology now I'm doing a master's in business management. I'm taking "ethics" and we're being forced to read The Social Conquest of Earth. Basically it's a book on why humans are eusocial. I'm not shitting you. Here's an apt review by Dawkins:

http://www.communityofreasonkc.org/wp-c ... Wilson.pdf

Do you have any ideas on how to stop the crazy? My entire class is convinced that humans really are eusocial and my professor told me to stop posting my opinions when I said that we're not eusocial by any falsifiable definition. Bear in mind my classmates are supposedly going to be future business leaders. Most of them don't even accept climate change.

Thanks for the help. I think I'm going to have an aneurism during the midterm when I'm forced to say we're eusocial because my grade depends on it.
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#2  Postby Fenrir » Feb 16, 2017 12:55 am

rB>C
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#3  Postby geneticallydead » Feb 16, 2017 12:58 am

Fenrir wrote:rB>C


he says it's an opinion. Wilson says it's too simple of a formula to be helpful without even going through what those terms mean :crazy:
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#4  Postby Fenrir » Feb 16, 2017 1:05 am

geneticallydead wrote:
Fenrir wrote:rB>C


he says it's an opinion.


FAKE NEWS!!1!

DRAIN THAT SWAMP!!!1
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#5  Postby geneticallydead » Feb 16, 2017 1:12 am

Fenrir wrote:
geneticallydead wrote:
Fenrir wrote:rB>C


he says it's an opinion.


FAKE NEWS!!1!

DRAIN THAT SWAMP!!!1


kill me
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#6  Postby Macdoc » Feb 16, 2017 1:22 am

FWIW I certainly think humans are a variant of eusocial.

denoting social organisms (e.g. the honeybee) in which a single female or caste produces the offspring and non-reproductive individuals cooperate in caring for the young.


while in humans reproduction is not eliminated as with drones....ask any untouchable how well the caste system in India benefits the Brahmins and disadvantages the untouchables.
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#7  Postby Fenrir » Feb 16, 2017 1:25 am

I really do sympathise with your predicament.

You likely already know of it but this paper is useful

[URL=http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v471/n7339/full/nature09831.html]Inclusive fitness theory and eusociality

[/URL]

This is the multifariously authored paper published as a counter to Nowak, Tarnita and Wilson 2010.
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#8  Postby geneticallydead » Feb 16, 2017 1:40 am

Macdoc wrote:FWIW I certainly think humans are a variant of eusocial.

denoting social organisms (e.g. the honeybee) in which a single female or caste produces the offspring and non-reproductive individuals cooperate in caring for the young.


while in humans reproduction is not eliminated as with drones....ask any untouchable how well the caste system in India benefits the Brahmins and disadvantages the untouchables.


Image
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#9  Postby Fenrir » Feb 16, 2017 2:11 am

geneticallydead wrote:
Fenrir wrote:rB>C


he says it's an opinion. Wilson says it's too simple of a formula to be helpful without even going through what those terms mean :crazy:

To unpack this a bit. No, it is not an opinion, it is a model. Models can be tested, and this one has been, quite a bit.

Opinions can also be tested, by producing a model, and testing it.

What is Wilson's testable model? How has Wilson's model performed in testing? Are it's predictions different to Hamilton's, complementary to Hamilton's, or do they reduce to special cases of Hamilton's model?

And no, humans are not the only available test subjects.
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#10  Postby geneticallydead » Feb 16, 2017 2:25 am

Fenrir wrote:
geneticallydead wrote:
Fenrir wrote:rB>C


he says it's an opinion. Wilson says it's too simple of a formula to be helpful without even going through what those terms mean :crazy:

To unpack this a bit. No, it is not an opinion, it is a model. Models can be tested, and this one has been, quite a bit.

Opinions can also be tested, by producing a model, and testing it.

What is Wilson's testable model? How has Wilson's model performed in testing? Are it's predictions different to Hamilton's, complementary to Hamilton's, or do they reduce to special cases of Hamilton's model?

And no, humans are not the only available test subjects.


According to https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.co ... y-biology/ Wilson didn't even vary r in his work attacking kin selection.
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#11  Postby Macdoc » Feb 16, 2017 8:15 am

well your comment certainly sets the stage for the level of discourse ...


one large useless image to another


Image :coffee:

I'll take OEs stance over yours anyday.... :coffee:
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#12  Postby Fenrir » Feb 16, 2017 9:03 am

That is uncalled for.
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#13  Postby Sendraks » Feb 16, 2017 10:31 am

Fenrir wrote:That is uncalled for.


So was geneticallydead posting a picture of Trump with the word "wrong" blazoned on it.
You're one image too late to be complaining about people posting "uncalled for" images.
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#14  Postby Macdoc » Feb 16, 2017 12:03 pm

Exactly.....I do respond in kind :coffee:
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#15  Postby chairman bill » Feb 16, 2017 1:29 pm

Er, isn't a photo of Trump, with the comment "Wrong", an indication/admission that you're right?
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#16  Postby Sendraks » Feb 16, 2017 1:37 pm

chairman bill wrote:Er, isn't a photo of Trump, with the comment "Wrong", an indication/admission that you're right?


Image
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#17  Postby chairman bill » Feb 16, 2017 1:38 pm

Oh, and by the way, humans aren't eusocial - we don't have a division of reproductive labour beyond that which is genetically determined (i.e. women do most of the work).
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#18  Postby Rumraket » Feb 16, 2017 1:50 pm

Macdoc wrote:

I'll take OEs stance over yours anyday.... :coffee:

That would be silly.

Citing a particular, very rare and completely cultural example does not alter the biological fact that Homo Sapiences is not a eusocial species. Most people, for most of human history, who procreated, succeeded in procreating regardless of social or economic status. The farmer had children, just as the nobleman did. The farmer CAN have children, even when for whatever reason he refrains from it.

A eusocial species is one in which there is an entire class that never reproduces because they physically can't, because they have evolved not to. The fact that a species of sentient organisms can artificially mimic this pattern through some set of synthetic cultural rules, doesn't make it into a eusocial species.
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#19  Postby LucidFlight » Feb 16, 2017 2:06 pm

Macdoc wrote:I'll take OEs stance over yours anyday.... :coffee:

Who or what is OEs?
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Re: This book is giving me an aneurism

#20  Postby geneticallydead » Feb 16, 2017 2:21 pm

Macdoc wrote:well your comment certainly sets the stage for the level of discourse ...


one large useless image to another


Image :coffee:

I'll take OEs stance over yours anyday.... :coffee:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

For what it's worth... I started writing an actual response before I figured, "I've argued the point enough to the professor. I'll just go with daddy Trump"
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