Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

Evolution, Natural Selection, Medicine, Psychology & Neuroscience.

Moderators: Calilasseia, ADParker

Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#21  Postby DavidMcC » Jul 12, 2017 1:17 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
I take it you like over-simplifications.

I take it you like to assume thing about people.

I wasn't assuming anything about people, It was your thanking someone for such a poorly worded article. that caused my comment.

You assumed that I've viewed it, and that I liked it. Neither assumption was true. I was just thanking him for taking the time.

Ok, so you were mimicking a computer-generated auto-reply. :dunno:
That possibility had not occurred to me!
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14290
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#22  Postby Sendraks » Jul 12, 2017 1:25 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
Ok, so you were mimicking a computer-generated auto-reply. :dunno:
That possibility had not occurred to me!


Apparently the possibility of SafeAsMilk just being a decent human being and thanking another for their efforts hadn't occurred to you either. Given this is the rather more obvious conclusion to draw than what you did, one has to wonder at what sort of tortured thought process you went through to come up with yours.
"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion." - Arthur C Clarke

"'Science doesn't know everything' - Well science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it'd stop" - Dara O'Brian
User avatar
Sendraks
 
Name: D-Money Jr
Posts: 13643
Age: 101
Male

Country: England
Print view this post

Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#23  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jul 12, 2017 1:35 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
I take it you like to assume thing about people.

I wasn't assuming anything about people, It was your thanking someone for such a poorly worded article. that caused my comment.

You assumed that I've viewed it, and that I liked it. Neither assumption was true. I was just thanking him for taking the time.

Ok, so you were mimicking a computer-generated auto-reply. :dunno:
That possibility had not occurred to me!

I can tell the possibility didn't occur to you in your rush to make assumptions. The note about computer-generated auto-reply is especially hilarious given your thought-free response to my post.
Yes, a mighty hot dog is our Lord!
User avatar
SafeAsMilk
 
Name: Makes Fails
Posts: 10514
Age: 37
Male

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#24  Postby DavidMcC » Jul 12, 2017 1:40 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
I wasn't assuming anything about people, It was your thanking someone for such a poorly worded article. that caused my comment.

You assumed that I've viewed it, and that I liked it. Neither assumption was true. I was just thanking him for taking the time.

Ok, so you were mimicking a computer-generated auto-reply. :dunno:
That possibility had not occurred to me!

I can tell the possibility didn't occur to you in your rush to make assumptions. The note about computer-generated auto-reply is especially hilarious given your thought-free response to my post.

My "rush to make assumptions"?? Thought-free??
This "debate" smacks of off-topic wind-up to me.

EDIT: How about we get back to caterpillars and carnivory?
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14290
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#25  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jul 12, 2017 1:48 pm

:lol: Dude who started a derail by making off-topic assumption about me cries about getting back on topic. I lol'd.
Yes, a mighty hot dog is our Lord!
User avatar
SafeAsMilk
 
Name: Makes Fails
Posts: 10514
Age: 37
Male

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#26  Postby scott1328 » Jul 12, 2017 1:48 pm

Tomatoes are evil.* They ruin everything they touch. Now, apparently, they even turn creatures into mad cannibals.

Even the mere mention of tomatoes, lead some to commit vile acts of trolling.

When will the madness cease? When will these nasty things be stamped out? Oh please won't someone think of the larvae?

* Ketchup and various italian sauces are not evil. They have been through a ritual purification of extreme stomping.
User avatar
scott1328
 
Name: Some call me... Tim
Posts: 7592
Male

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#27  Postby DavidMcC » Jul 12, 2017 1:48 pm

... We still don't know whether ther is something in tomatoes that makes some caterpilars turn carnivorous,or whether it is something else altogether, and the hapless tomatoes just get the blame.
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14290
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#28  Postby DavidMcC » Jul 12, 2017 1:51 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote::lol: Dude who started a derail by making off-topic assumption about me cries about getting back on topic. I lol'd.

So any question is off-topic if you say it is, just because you are the thread-starter? Is that it?
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14290
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#29  Postby DavidMcC » Jul 12, 2017 1:54 pm

scott1328 wrote:Tomatoes are evil.* They ruin everything they touch. Now, apparently, they even turn creatures into mad cannibals.

Even the mere mention of tomatoes, lead some to commit vile acts of trolling.

When will the madness cease?
...

:drunk: :crazy:
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14290
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#30  Postby DavidMcC » Jul 12, 2017 1:59 pm

Kyx wrote:Caterpillars are not fussy eaters. They can eat the leaves of plants or turn on each other when food runs out. Tomato plants can switch on this cannibalistic instinct in caterpillars by making their leaves taste foul, finds a study in Nature Ecology & Evolution.
...

That has not been demonstrated as a general phenomenon in caterpillars. Their usual initial response to poisons in leaves is to find another leaf/plant, and eat that, rather than find another caterpillar and eat that.
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14290
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#31  Postby Calilasseia » Jul 12, 2017 2:17 pm

Actually, cannibalism in Lepidoptera larvae is a well-documented phenomenon. Here in the UK, the larvae of the Orange Tip, Anthocharis cardamines, are cannibalistic in the first instar in the wild. Larvae of two Nocutid moths, the Dun-Bar (Cosmia trapezina) and the Satellite (Eupsilia transversa), are carnivorous toward other Lepidoptera larvae in the wild, and will exhibit cannibalism in captivity, to the point where captive rearing of the larvae of these species requires segregating the larvae in individual containers. These species will attack other Lepidoptera larvae in the wild, as a means of eliminating food competition, and will also weed out other individuals of their own species in an overcrowding situation on a given foodplant.

Spodoptera exigua, the Small Mottled Willow, is a migrant species from the UK standpoint, and resident in continental Europe, with no previous documented carnivorous behaviour associated with its larvae. As a consequence, the emergence of carnivorous behaviour under experimental conditions is interesting to put it mildly, and it's worth pursuing whether this switch is a feature restricted to this species, or more widespread. It's also worth noting that this species is a member of the same taxonomic SubFamily as the two moths I cited above as having documented carnivorous behaviour in the wild (all three are members of the Xyleninae). It's possible that carnivory is a latent trait within Xylenines, expressed under certain conditions, and that the two documented carnivorous larvae cited above express this trait because the conditions are met in these species.
Signature temporarily on hold until I can find a reliable image host ...
User avatar
Calilasseia
Moderator
 
Posts: 21032
Age: 55
Male

Country: England
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#32  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jul 12, 2017 2:21 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote::lol: Dude who started a derail by making off-topic assumption about me cries about getting back on topic. I lol'd.

So any question is off-topic if you say it is, just because you are the thread-starter? Is that it?

I can't even :lol:

I'm not the thread starter, and it is demonstrably off topic because your post was about me, not the topic.
Yes, a mighty hot dog is our Lord!
User avatar
SafeAsMilk
 
Name: Makes Fails
Posts: 10514
Age: 37
Male

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#33  Postby DavidMcC » Jul 12, 2017 4:25 pm

Sendraks wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
Ok, so you were mimicking a computer-generated auto-reply. :dunno:
That possibility had not occurred to me!


Apparently the possibility of SafeAsMilk just being a decent human being and thanking another for their efforts hadn't occurred to you either. Given this is the rather more obvious conclusion to draw than what you did, one has to wonder at what sort of tortured thought process you went through to come up with yours.

No, it is not the more obvious concl;usion to draw. The obvious conclusion to draw when someone responds to a comment is that the responder has actually read the comment. If h'e/she has not done so, he/she should say so, so as not to cause confusion.
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14290
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#34  Postby scott1328 » Jul 12, 2017 5:30 pm

I think everyone is losing sight of the real problem here. Tomatoes are evil and unless all tomatoes are rendered into ketchup or marinara, then the world will never see a lasting peace.
User avatar
scott1328
 
Name: Some call me... Tim
Posts: 7592
Male

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#35  Postby Fallible » Jul 12, 2017 5:39 pm

I like them. :hide:
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 43958
Age: 44
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#36  Postby DavidMcC » Jul 12, 2017 5:51 pm

I'm going to side with Fallible on this. I like tomatoes AND ketchup.
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14290
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#37  Postby DavidMcC » Jul 14, 2017 1:33 pm

Calilasseia wrote:Actually, cannibalism in Lepidoptera larvae is a well-documented phenomenon. Here in the UK, the larvae of the Orange Tip, Anthocharis cardamines, are cannibalistic in the first instar in the wild. Larvae of two Nocutid moths, the Dun-Bar (Cosmia trapezina) and the Satellite (Eupsilia transversa), are carnivorous toward other Lepidoptera larvae in the wild, and will exhibit cannibalism in captivity, to the point where captive rearing of the larvae of these species requires segregating the larvae in individual containers. These species will attack other Lepidoptera larvae in the wild, as a means of eliminating food competition, and will also weed out other individuals of their own species in an overcrowding situation on a given foodplant.

Spodoptera exigua, the Small Mottled Willow, is a migrant species from the UK standpoint, and resident in continental Europe, with no previous documented carnivorous behaviour associated with its larvae. As a consequence, the emergence of carnivorous behaviour under experimental conditions is interesting to put it mildly, and it's worth pursuing whether this switch is a feature restricted to this species, or more widespread. It's also worth noting that this species is a member of the same taxonomic SubFamily as the two moths I cited above as having documented carnivorous behaviour in the wild (all three are members of the Xyleninae). It's possible that carnivory is a latent trait within Xylenines, expressed under certain conditions, and that the two documented carnivorous larvae cited above express this trait because the conditions are met in these species.

All true, but none of this can be attributed to eating tomatoes! QED.

LATE EDIT: ..'. Or even to eating plants, given that they will always do that in any case, so that such behaviour cannot be suppressed to show what effect it has on the caterpillars.
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14290
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Tomatoes turn caterpillars into cannibals

#38  Postby DavidMcC » Jul 14, 2017 3:59 pm

I suggest an alternative, very different hypothesis: that SOME species of caterpillar eat other caterpillars when they are within range, especially if the plant food is limited. This has nothing to do with whether the plant is a tomato.
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14290
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Previous

Return to Biological Sciences

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest