Regina wrote:You don't get influenza because you take high doses of vitamin C? Or are you talking about the common cold?
Let me tell you, luckily I have never had influenza ever, and I don't take megadoses of vitamin C.

Therapeutic uses
Further information: Vitamin C and the common cold

Vitamin C functions as an antioxidant and is necessary for the treatment and prevention of scurvy, though in nearly all cases dietary intake is adequate to prevent deficiency and supplementation is not necessary.[88][89][90][91][92][93] Though vitamin C has been promoted as useful in the treatment of a variety of conditions, most of these uses are poorly supported by the evidence and sometimes contraindicated.[94][95][96][97] Vitamin C may be useful in lowering serum uric acid levels, resulting in a correspondingly lower incidence of gout.[98] Neither prophylactic nor therapeutic use is supported in the prevention or treatment of pneumonia.[99] People with a the highest levels of ascorbic acid in their blood stream seem to be at a significantly reduced risk of having a stroke and low ascorbic acid has been suggested as a way of identifying those at high risk of stroke. [100]

Vitamin C's effect on the common cold has been extensively researched. It has not been shown effective in prevention or treatment of the common cold, except in limited circumstances (specifically, individuals exercising vigorously in cold environments).[101][102][103] Routine vitamin C supplementation does not reduce the incidence or severity of the common cold in the general population, though it may reduce the duration of illness.[101][104][105]
[edit] Vitamin C megadosage
Main article: Vitamin C megadosage

Several individuals and organizations advocate large doses of vitamin C in excess of 10–100 times RDI in the form of oral or intravenous therapy.[106] Large, randomized clinical trials on the effects of high doses on the general population have never taken place. Arguments for megadosage are based on the diets of closely related apes, the hypothesized diet of prehistoric humans, and that most mammals synthesize vitamin C rather than relying on dietary intake. Linus Pauling spent much of the later part of his life advocating for the use of megadose vitamin C and believed the established RDA was sufficient to prevent scurvy, but not necessarily the dosage for optimal health.[107] Megadoses have been promoted for the treatment or prevention of various conditions, including cancer,[108][109][110][111] the common cold,[101] and coronary disease.[112] These uses are not supported by clinical evidence, and in some cases harm may result.[101][108][109][110][111][112]
[edit] Testing for ascorbate levels in the body

Wikipedia
So that was vitamin C and the common cold.
I have yet to find something that deals with influenza and megadoses of vitamin C.
What I have found, though, in various articles, is that vaccination is seen as the only effective prevention.

First of all, there are enough scare articles and studies about vitamins to sink the Titanic. I wouldn’t rely solely upon Wiki articles; (although I’m not discounting them, and in fact I use them) however, I’ve read more books than I can count on the effects of mega doses of vitamins. Taking vitamins has to be done intelligently; you can’t just start taking them willy-nilly. You need to know the proper dosages to take, how they interact with each other and so on. That can only be accomplished by an intense study program in order to understand what you’re doing to your body. Wiki articles simply aren’t sufficient.

You don’t just take one vitamin as if it‘s a cure-all. They need to be taken in conjunction with all of the others, plus an adequate diet and a proper intake of fibre. In addition the oil based vitamins need to be taken with care since one’s body will store them. The same applies to minerals.

To my knowledge no one (without medical problems) has ever been harmed by Vitamin C. The worst that will happen is one can exceed their “bowel tolerance level” and that will go away once one reduces their intake.

While many in society buy into the fear-mongering of taking vitamins, those same people will take prescription drugs (and some non-prescription ones) that can KILL you. They do that without the blink of an eye, yet balk at taking vitamins.

Prescription drugs taken as prescribed in hospitals are the fourth leading cause of death in the U.S and Canada, after cancer, heart disease and strokes. They cause about 10,000 deaths a year in Canada and about 106,000 deaths a year and over two million serious injuries in the U.S. (Source: Lazarou et al JAMA Vol. 279 No. 15 pp.1200-1205 Incidence of Adverse Drug Reactions in Hospitalized Patients)

As many as another 10,000 deaths a year in Canada are thought to occur outside hospitals due to the wrong drug, dosage errors, and adverse reactions. (Source: Dr. Joel Lexchin, Associate Professor, School of Health Policy and Management, York University, Emergency Physician, University Health Network, and Associate Professor, Department of Family and Community Medicine, University of Toronto, Toronto, Ont.)

One out of four admissions to internal medicine in Canadian hospitals is related to prescription drugs, 70% of which are preventable. (Source: Drug Related Hospitalizations in a Tertiary Care Internal medicine Service of a Canadian Hospital: A Prospective Study Leslie Jo Samoy et al. Pharmacotherapy 2006:26 (II) 1587-1586)

http://theconference.ca/facts-on-prescription-drug-deaths-and-the-drug-industry

Even over-the-counter Aspirin kills people, yet it’s almost a staple in our society.

The Final Word from Linus Pauling
While rethinking your daily aspirin, please consider these remarks made by the late chemist and medical researcher Linus Pauling writing in HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER:

"It is drugs, especially the analgesics and antipyretics such as aspirin, that are responsible for most of the five thousand deaths by poisoning that occur each year in the United States. Of that mournful total about twenty-five hundred are children. About four hundred of these children die each year of poisoning by aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) and some other salicylate. Aspirin and similar drugs are sold openly, without prescription. They are considered to be exceptionally safe substances. The fatal dose is 0.4 to 0.5 gm per kilogram body weight: that is 5 to 10 gm for a child, 20 to 30 g for an adult."

http://www.angelfire.com/az/sthurston/arginine_vs_aspirin.html

Because winter is almost upon us and we only get around 8 hours of daylight per day, Health Canada (I think they’re the ones) are telling people to take Vitamin D supplements. There are signs in all of our drug stores promoting it. That would have been unheard of just a few years ago, but studies have no confirmed that it’s necessary for good health and we simply can’t manufacture it ourselves during the winter months.

I’d ask too, how many here have taken a prescription drug? Most I would guess. In my city they have to (by law) give you the abstract about the drug and its side effects. Many read like an invitation to the morgue! The side effects can be horrendous, depending on the drug naturally, but even mild drugs “can/may” cause severe side effects. Yet does anyone refuse those drugs? None that I’m aware of.

While most people will have no qualms whatsoever about taking a prescription drug that might cause them either major problems, or in the worst case... death, they refuse vitamins because they think they’re unsafe!

And with regards to influenza.

Vitamin C expert Robert Cathcart, M.D., specifies very high therapeutic doses of vitamin C. For a severe cold: 60,000 to 100,000 milligrams/day. [4] For most influenza (flu), 100,000 to 150,000 mg/day. [5] For Avian (Bird) Flu, 150,000 to 300,000 mg/day.[6]

http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v01n12.shtml

Just a quick reply as I'm busy.
Why do you argue with prescription drugs? This is about vitamin C, and nothing else.
In my part of the world, there is no "fear-mongering" with regards to vitamins (some of which do cause problems when overdosed, vitamin A, for example). The general consensus is that you don't need them if you stick to a proper varied diet.
Of course, that does not stop pharmaceutical companies from trying to sell them to the naive. But that's another topic.

And here's a bit of Quackwatch for you.

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRel ... uling.html

Regina wrote:Just a quick reply as I'm busy.
Why do you argue with prescription drugs? This is about vitamin C, and nothing else.
In my part of the world, there is no "fear-mongering" with regards to vitamins (some of which do cause problems when overdosed, vitamin A, for example). The general consensus is that you don't need them if you stick to a proper varied diet.
Of course, that does not stop pharmaceutical companies from trying to sell them to the naive. But that's another topic.

And here's a bit of Quackwatch for you.

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRel ... uling.html

I too can only reply quickly for now.

We don’t live in a vacuum. In this country at least, vitamins have come under intense scrutiny, not just because of their purported adverse medical benefits, but also that they are totally unnecessary. That’s why I mentioned prescription drugs to put things into perspective. If 1,000 people die from Aspirin and nobody dies from Vitamin C, do I call Vitamin C harmful and tell the public not to take it?

We’re talking about health benefits (either beneficial or adverse) and that also includes prescription and non- prescription drug intakes in addition to vitamins to put things into perspective.

And no, this isn’t about Vitamin C only, look at the header and this first line.

Vitamin supplementation reconsidered
Washington - New research is prompting a fresh look at the value of vitamin supplements, with some surprising results indicating that taking too many supplements of some could be harmful.

We’re talking about the “possible” harmful effects of taking supplements, how can I fully address that issue if I can’t speak about the parallel harmful effects of drugs too? If there are say 10 harmful effects that need to be avoided, or at least intelligently considered before using, do we only hone in on one and ignore the other 9?

Vitamin A is oil based, and yes, it can cause problems when taken in excess but only when it’s taken by someone who doesn’t understand the proper dosage.

Sticking to a proper diet is next to (if not) impossible. We simply can’t intake enough to maintain optimum health.
I’ll check that link later...

Skinny Puppy wrote:

Sticking to a proper diet is next to (if not) impossible. We simply can’t intake enough to maintain optimum health.
I’ll check that link later...

I had no idea that maintaining a healthy diet is so difficult in Canada.
I eat veggies and/or fruits on a daily basis. Meat in moderation, and I love all kinds of fish and seafood.Add to that pasta, potatoes and rice and you'll have all you need.
According to my GP, everything is fine, and has been for as long as I can remember.

Regina wrote:

Skinny Puppy wrote:

Sticking to a proper diet is next to (if not) impossible. We simply can’t intake enough to maintain optimum health.
I’ll check that link later...

I had no idea that maintaining a healthy diet is so difficult in Canada.
I eat veggies and/or fruits on a daily basis. Meat in moderation, and I love all kinds of fish and seafood.Add to that pasta, potatoes and rice and you'll have all you need.
According to my GP, everything is fine, and has been for as long as I can remember.

You do not need any vitamin supplements. Only take vitamin supplement if it discovered that you are short of one. Mega-dosis are no good as you pee most of it out.

I dont like the fact it links taking vitamins to increased mortality. Not sure if it is said elsewhere in this thread but are people who take vitamins more likely to eat unhealthy or already have an unhealthy diet? That could be the factor for increased mortality.

As for myself, I am, sad to say, a pill-popper. I take 2 prescriptions: concerta for adhd and zoloft for anxiety. I take a multivatimin, 1,200mg fish oil, 1000mg l-tyrosine, 200mg l-theanine.

The fish oil is in large part for cardiovascular support and the research suggests it can have many positive benefits. My partner HATES fish and nuts so we find it hard to naturally get omega-3 in our diet. The tyrosine is for supporting my dopamine production for my concerta and the l-theanine works wonders for reducing the side effects of concerta and zoloft (shaking, racing heart, etc..). The multivitamin? Well, just because! There are not any dangerously high amounts of anything in them, so I see no rational reason to worry about overdosing.

Regarding vitamin supplementation and other supplements:

The use of supplements in the prevention of A(ge) R(elated) M(acular) D(egeneration) in helping protect the unaffected eye especially is well documented.See the AREDS Study

http://www.nei.nih.gov/amd/

plus there is now the AREDS2 Study is due to report in 2013.

So most optometrists and ophthalmologists will advise the use of supplements, conforming to the AREDS formulation, to persons at risk, or suffering from ARMD.

Regarding the use of Vitamin C, I give you cardioretinometry FWIW:

http://www.cardioptometry.org/


according to Syd Bush megadoses of Vit C with reverse atherosclerosis.

Interesting reading! Thanks!

Scot Dutchy wrote:

Regina wrote:

Skinny Puppy wrote:

Sticking to a proper diet is next to (if not) impossible. We simply can’t intake enough to maintain optimum health.
I’ll check that link later...

I had no idea that maintaining a healthy diet is so difficult in Canada.
I eat veggies and/or fruits on a daily basis. Meat in moderation, and I love all kinds of fish and seafood.Add to that pasta, potatoes and rice and you'll have all you need.
According to my GP, everything is fine, and has been for as long as I can remember.

You do not need any vitamin supplements. Only take vitamin supplement if it discovered that you are short of one. Mega-dosis are no good as you pee most of it out.

Too many people want to treat this as an all-or-nothing proposition, saying either everyone should take vitamin supplements or no one should. It's never that simple. Most people probably don't need them - at least most people in the developed world. However, there are people who do need them due to things like genetics or disease. You can't pull one answer out of the hat and apply it to everyone.

Scot Dutchy wrote:

Regina wrote:

Skinny Puppy wrote:

Sticking to a proper diet is next to (if not) impossible. We simply can’t intake enough to maintain optimum health.
I’ll check that link later...

I had no idea that maintaining a healthy diet is so difficult in Canada.
I eat veggies and/or fruits on a daily basis. Meat in moderation, and I love all kinds of fish and seafood.Add to that pasta, potatoes and rice and you'll have all you need.
According to my GP, everything is fine, and has been for as long as I can remember.

You do not need any vitamin supplements. Only take vitamin supplement if it discovered that you are short of one. Mega-dosis are no good as you pee most of it out.

Taking vitamins has to be done intelligently. You need to do extensive study and research in order to determine the correct dosages to take and whether they will benefit you or not. Some people (with specific medical conditions) need to be careful as vitamins can/may affect them adversely.

In addition, anyone on medications needs to exercise caution because vitamins can neutralize the drugs that they are taking. Large doses of vitamins are extremely potent at removing anything from your system that is not there naturally... and prescription drugs are not natural to your body.

And let’s dispense with the “pee-it-out old wives tale” which is propaganda designed to scare people away from good health.