Macdoc wrote:You didn't read it - you think your prof would pass you on a commentary - nope fail. Fucking undergrads cutting corners again - twas ever thus.
You read the not so good stuff so you recognize the range. Ask your prof.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I graduated 18 years ago. You should know, having a literary degree, that once you've read enough dross you can spot it at 100 paces. One does not need to read every example of the genre in order to recognise it, that's the point. You read some of the not so good stuff so you recognise the range and don't waste your time in this world with more great literature than you could ever hope to get through in your lifetime reading the not so good stuff. However just to be sure I withdrew my nose from the sweet-smelling air surrounding my ivory tower for long enough to read the opening paragraph, and blow me down if I didn't discover that it was total shit. As I said I have nothing against people enjoying total shit, but it's been done before (and I read plenty of it in my teens) and at least those seemed to have made the effort to use a thesaurus.

And no, a bus ticket is not literature, it's a bus ticket.

Oh dear. Seems they didn't tell you after all. I think what you meant is that the book is not an example of good literature. It is however literature, since 'literature' is the written word. This post is literature. A bus ticket is literature. The Rime of the Ancient Mariner is literature. 50 Shades of Grey is literature. So I'm not really sure what your objection is about, since we both agree it's not good literature.

Your obsession with bodily functions seems a tad pathological......try the potty mouth training section of your local library.

One learns something new every day. Today, I learned how you react when people disagree with you - off-topic pearl-clutching about certain combinations of letters and personal attacks.

It is also very popular in Ireland of all places. The BDSM shops say they are selling well.

Macdoc wrote:If you haven't read it Cali - then you are not in a position to make that kind of pejorative statement.

I have read it.
I have a literary degree
It's an interesting foray into soft porn with a smidgeon of bondage.
It's bodice ripper taken a bit further is all. It verges on a send up -
It might mean a breakthrough in certain aspects of erotica for mainstream women...hence the popularity.

This is likely a good summary
Jenny Colgan of The Guardian wrote "It is jolly, eminently readable and as sweet and safe as BDSM (bondage, discipline, sadism and masochism) erotica can be without contravening the trade descriptions act"

Is it literature....not in the least.
Is it pulp fiction - yup and selling like crazy. Let it roll - about time America loosened the corsets.

It is shite! It is not a breakthrough for women, it reverts to form in that regard where the man can abuse her and the little woman will forgive the man, because she luuuuuurvs him. He is not sexy, he is fucked up and anyone who leaves this book thinking that BDSM only occurs because some fucked up guy hates all women because of his crack-whore mother, has been grossly misinformed. I could go on......

This book does women no favours at all.

Paula wrote:This book does women no favours at all.

On the contrary - at least one woman has benefited from it. It has done E.L. James a lot of favour$$$...

We can all scoff and laugh at E.L. James' dealing with female naughty bits but are more credible writers any better?

Drogo held her in strong arms, and his hand stroked her sex and woke that sweet wetness that was his alone...

They scented her with spice-flower and cinnamon; a touch on each wrist, behind her ear, on the tips of her milk-heavy breasts. The last dab was for her sex. Irri's finger felt as light and cool as a lover's kiss as it slid softly up between her lips.

Lol!

It made it to number 5 on Whitcoull's New Zealand top 100 books

Scot Dutchy wrote:It is also very popular in Ireland of all places. The BDSM shops say they are selling well.

They're a phenomenon here. Even the local Spar has a stack of them.

I listened to an interview with the author the other day, she came across very well. Self-deprecating and apparently stunned that it/they were so well received.

I have no intention of reading the books, but it seemed like the author is an honest and quite pleasant woman, even funny.

I don't think anyone said anything bad about E.L. James as a person.

Animavore wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:It is also very popular in Ireland of all places. The BDSM shops say they are selling well.

They're a phenomenon here. Even the local Spar has a stack of them.

The translation did not go down well at all here. In fact it was a non starter.

It would be interesting to know what Feminists think of it. On the one hand, it's arguably 'liberating' for women to be able to openly buy and read fiction of this sort, on the other, the whole story is arguably steeped in gender caricatures which are not exactly progressive.

Personally, I thought it was dross. Crap story. Boring repetetive sex. Cringeworthy gender stereotypes. It goes into a category entitled, 'it honestly depresses me that things like this become widely popular'.

To be honest I think that the days when it was shameful for women to be interested in sex, even kinky sex, are long gone here. I don't think anyone but religious stuffed shirts would raise much of an eyebrow to see women reading or buying this stuff. I mean I remember when I was a teenager (20+ years ago) reading a 'women's' best seller which had a long and detailed scene describing what the heroine did to a tied up bloke with a gobful of menthol mouthwash and a candle, this isn't much different surely?

Animavore wrote:I don't think anyone said anything bad about E.L. James as a person.

No indeed. I was just recounting the only thing I actually know about the book or the author, which is what I heard in the interview.

Doesn't sound like high fallutin' literture according to those who have read it, but the woman actually sounds real which I do appreciate, and she seems to have won on the book writing lottery, so good for her I guess.

Can't imagine I will ever really become involved other than a discussion here with friends.

Perhaps it's a bit like the "Interview with a Vampire" thing that took off years ago. The author was Anne Rice as I recall and it went the distance too.

It later came out (willingly on the authors part apparently) that she had previously written some fairly weird and slightly hardcore sm stuff under a different name. I read one of them but it wasn't my cup of tea even though I had been quite taken with the 'Vampire' stuff.

Maybe I should try 'Twilight'.....

No! For the love of God, don't!

archibald wrote:It would be interesting to know what Feminists think of it. On the one hand, it's arguably 'liberating' for women to be able to openly buy and read fiction of this sort, on the other, the whole story is arguably steeped in gender caricatures which are not exactly progressive.

Personally, I thought it was dross. Crap story. Boring repetetive sex. Cringeworthy gender stereotypes. It goes into a category entitled, 'it honestly depresses me that things like this become widely popular'.

It's not hard to find out what people who call themselves feminists think about it. Not surprisingly there is no consensus.

Fallible wrote:To be honest I think that the days when it was shameful for women to be interested in sex, even kinky sex, are long gone here. I don't think anyone but religious stuffed shirts would raise much of an eyebrow to see women reading or buying this stuff. I mean I remember when I was a teenager (20+ years ago) reading a 'women's' best seller which had a long and detailed scene describing what the heroine did to a tied up bloke with a gobful of menthol mouthwash and a candle, this isn't much different surely?

On the sex content, I largely agree (though it depends where you live to some extent) and would only remark that it's a sort of 'coming out' in terms of a combination of (a) the level of explicitness and amount of sex and (b) position on bestseller lists and prominence on shelves.

The (IMO) embarrassingly retro gender roles annoyed me most.

Animavore wrote:No! For the love of God, don't!

Can't imagine it happening, but thanks for the help.

Hey, totally OT but did I read you saying you were thinking of moving to my fair land a while ago?

The book was written to sell Romney to women voters.

Onyx8 wrote:

Animavore wrote:No! For the love of God, don't!

Can't imagine it happening, but thanks for the help.

Hey, totally OT but did I read you saying you were thinking of moving to my fair land a while ago?

Yeah, I had a mess up with the visa application. I'm going to have to try again in January. I think I'll do it through one of the agencies this time instead of trying to do it all myself.

Onyx8 wrote:It's not hard to find out what people who call themselves feminists think about it. Not surprisingly there is no consensus.

It strikes me that it might be similar to an imaginary scenario where a woman gets to be president of the USA but has to wear short skirts and high heels. A sort of curate's egg in terms of progress.