A Song of Ice and Fire.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#301  Postby Mazille » Feb 03, 2015 7:33 pm

Joe Abercrombie. Thank me later.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#302  Postby Mazille » Feb 03, 2015 7:34 pm

VazScep wrote:I don't know if it's a typical comparison, but if you like ASoIaF, I recommend Steven Donaldson's The Gap Sequence.

Isn't he the one who wrote the Covenant stuff?
I've made my utter dismay with that shit known at length somewhere around here.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#303  Postby smudge » Feb 03, 2015 7:44 pm

Mazille wrote:Joe Abercrombie. Thank me later.


:thumbup:

Agreed!

Pick up The Blade Itself - you will not want to stop until the trilogy ends....
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#304  Postby Coastal » Feb 03, 2015 7:50 pm

Oh you bastards! Now I'm probably off again for the next few months and I have so much else I want to read first.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#305  Postby Thommo » Feb 03, 2015 7:55 pm

Mazille wrote:Joe Abercrombie. Thank me later.


Spooky, I actually bought one of these the other day (Best Served Cold) on a recommendation from some random corner of the internet, I'm up to p100 so far. :smile:
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#306  Postby trogs » Feb 24, 2015 8:57 am

Mazille wrote:Joe Abercrombie. Thank me later.

Just started The Blade Itself, based on this thread.

Uh. Thank you Mazille.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#307  Postby Thommo » Feb 24, 2015 9:18 am

I ended up being pretty *meh* about Best Served Cold. It's well enough written, but unlikeable characters and a weak plot with a pretty huge plot hole were pretty big sticking points for me. Although it's a stand alone novel it definitely felt like I was missing something for not starting with preceding trilogy as well, you go three hundred and fifty pages thinking it's supposed to be physically realistic, and then a magician appears out of nowhere as though it's totally mundane.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#308  Postby VazScep » Mar 23, 2015 8:05 pm

Mazille wrote:I've made my utter dismay with that shit known at length somewhere around here.
I managed to forget this thread, apologies.

I read the Gap Cycle, and loved it so much that I thought Covenant would be an obvious next step. Fuck, was I wrong. "Lord Foul's Bane" was one of the most boring reads I ever tried to suffer through. I came out thinking it was a heap of shit, and have no intention of reading any more. But I've read the Gap Sequence/Cycle twice.

You can't compare the two series, and I'm obviously in the minority here, with the Gap Cycle barely known and Covenant supposedly some sort of classic. But fuck that. I think Donaldson might appeal to Tolkien fans, and I've never been one of those. I gave up on Lord of the Rings somewhere near the beginning of the third book, exhausted at already having to suffer through two books of total drek.

The Gap sequence/cycle doesn't compare. It's entirely driven by characters, conspiracies, complex plotting and pretty hard sci-fi. My favourite aspect of it is how Donaldson uses it to contrast a character's outward behaviour from their internal turmoil. The most fascinating and disturbing character, Angus Thermopyle, a repeated rapist, murderer and traitor of his own species, ends up becoming a very very uncomfortable hero of the human race, all the while screaming inside his own skull and reacting only according to a boiling cowardice that comes from his desperation to escape the horror of his childhood.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#309  Postby smudge » Mar 23, 2015 8:18 pm

Ah, the Covenant books are wonderful. The original ones at least.
Clearly other folks are free to disagree.
If you have only read the first of the trilogy (Lord Fouls Bane) and found it slow I would remind you that a similar judgment is commonly heard when people read The Fellowship of The Ring. On the whole, people that persevere are rewarded and are glad that they did so. OK Vaz-Scep- you didn't like that either. I'd argue that the Covenant books pick up far more quickly are are less in need of editing down that The Lord of The Rings. That said, the sprawl is part of the appeal of the Tolkien work in my view.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#310  Postby Mazille » Mar 23, 2015 9:01 pm

trogs wrote:
Mazille wrote:Joe Abercrombie. Thank me later.

Just started The Blade Itself, based on this thread.

Uh. Thank you Mazille.

:thumbup:

smudge wrote:Ah, the Covenant books are wonderful. The original ones at least.
Clearly other folks are free to disagree.
If you have only read the first of the trilogy (Lord Fouls Bane) and found it slow I would remind you that a similar judgment is commonly heard when people read The Fellowship of The Ring. On the whole, people that persevere are rewarded and are glad that they did so. OK Vaz-Scep- you didn't like that either. I'd argue that the Covenant books pick up far more quickly are are less in need of editing down that The Lord of The Rings. That said, the sprawl is part of the appeal of the Tolkien work in my view.


It's more because everybody in that first novel is a whingy shit that I disliked it.

So, that Gap series sounds interesting. Will have to find me a copy then.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#311  Postby Nostalgia » Mar 23, 2015 9:42 pm

Almost finished The Malazan Book of the Fallen or whatever it's called. Steven Erikson's fantasy epic. Got the end of book 9 and book 10 to read. It's taken me over a year and I'm almost running out of steam but it would be silly not to move onto book 10 when I'm done of 9.

Without a doubt the most "epic" of fantasy epics I've ever read. The story spans tens of thousands of years, three or four continents, and literally hundreds of named characters (whom Erikson expects you remember). It has it's flaws, it can be repetitive at times and there are simply too many characters. But Erikson is one of the greatest yarn-spinners I've ever read. His characterisation is fantastic. Wiskeyjack, Krupe, Fiddler, Cutter to name but a few. All of these people I feel are real and could walk into my home at any minute (except for the dead ones).

There was a particular moment near the end of the second or third book (for those who have read it I'm talking about the end of the Chain of Dogs) where I screamed at the book in my hands. The tension was built steadily over several chapters and the culmination, well, very few books provoke an actually physical response in me, and that's usually just a single tear or a muffled laugh.

I screamed.

At a book.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#312  Postby willhud9 » Mar 23, 2015 10:35 pm

Raymond E Feist takes the gold for most invested fantasy series I involved myself with. His Midkemia novels, especially everything related to Pug/Milamber, are in my opinion the best.

My top 5 authors/series for fantasy are:

Raymond E. Feist for all his riftwar books.
David Eddings for The Belgariad
RA Salvatore for his Forgotten Realms contributions notable Drizzt and more favourably Cadderly Bonaduce
Steven Erickson for The Malazan Book Of The Fallen
and of course Tolkien for his The Hobbit, and Lord of the Rings

I like ASOIAF, but it ranks maybe 8th or 9th on my list of fantasy series, despite being a huge favourite.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#313  Postby Pulsar » Mar 24, 2015 1:12 am

Interesting tease from GRRM: http://grrm.livejournal.com/412882.html

Also, I have decided against attending this year's San Diego Comicon. Same reason. But since Comicon was never listed on my Appearances page, scratching it is not as big a deal.

(Should I complete and deliver WINDS OF WINTER before these cons roll round, I reserve the right to change my mind).

Now, GRRM is always extremely cautious about delivery dates (he learned his lesson after A Feast For Crows), so the fact that he's hinting at the near completion of WOW suggests that the book really is almost done. San Diego Comicon is in July, so if he finishes around that time, publication in early 2016 seems possible (maybe).
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#314  Postby trogs » Mar 24, 2015 1:32 am

Pulsar wrote:Interesting tease from GRRM: http://grrm.livejournal.com/412882.html

Also, I have decided against attending this year's San Diego Comicon. Same reason. But since Comicon was never listed on my Appearances page, scratching it is not as big a deal.

(Should I complete and deliver WINDS OF WINTER before these cons roll round, I reserve the right to change my mind).

Now, GRRM is always extremely cautious about delivery dates (he learned his lesson after A Feast For Crows), so the fact that he's hinting at the near completion of WOW suggests that the book really is almost done. San Diego Comicon is in July, so if he finishes around that time, publication in early 2016 seems possible (maybe).

Some are impressed with GRRM's ability in particular to write compelling female characters. GRRM says that he writes by trying to imagine being people different from himself, but who have some small part of himself magnified and changed.

I think when writing Shae, GRRM magnified the part of him which loves being such a goddamn tease.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#315  Postby smudge » Mar 24, 2015 6:47 am

Mazille wrote:

smudge wrote:Ah, the Covenant books are wonderful. The original ones at least.
Clearly other folks are free to disagree.
If you have only read the first of the trilogy (Lord Fouls Bane) and found it slow I would remind you that a similar judgment is commonly heard when people read The Fellowship of The Ring. On the whole, people that persevere are rewarded and are glad that they did so. OK Vaz-Scep- you didn't like that either. I'd argue that the Covenant books pick up far more quickly are are less in need of editing down that The Lord of The Rings. That said, the sprawl is part of the appeal of the Tolkien work in my view.


It's more because everybody in that first novel is a whingy shit that I disliked it.

So, that Gap series sounds interesting. Will have to find me a copy then.


Hmm....

This ;


VazScep wrote:

The Gap sequence/cycle doesn't compare. It's entirely driven by characters, conspiracies, complex plotting and pretty hard sci-fi. My favourite aspect of it is how Donaldson uses it to contrast a character's outward behaviour from their internal turmoil. The most fascinating and disturbing character, Angus Thermopyle, a repeated rapist, murderer and traitor of his own species, ends up becoming a very very uncomfortable hero of the human race, all the while screaming inside his own skull and reacting only according to a boiling cowardice that comes from his desperation to escape the horror of his childhood.


Describes the Covenant books. It equally well applies to the Covenant books (if not more so) as the Gap series. It is what Donaldson does.
So VazScep, to say "doesn't compare" and then describe why both series are so very very similar seems strange!

I guess we are off topic. :cheers:
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#316  Postby VazScep » Mar 24, 2015 9:55 am

smudge wrote:Ah, the Covenant books are wonderful. The original ones at least.
Clearly other folks are free to disagree.
We are. But the weight of people against me says I've probably missed something.

If you have only read the first of the trilogy (Lord Fouls Bane) and found it slow I would remind you that a similar judgment is commonly heard when people read The Fellowship of The Ring. On the whole, people that persevere are rewarded and are glad that they did so. OK Vaz-Scep- you didn't like that either. I'd argue that the Covenant books pick up far more quickly are are less in need of editing down that The Lord of The Rings. That said, the sprawl is part of the appeal of the Tolkien work in my view.
Yeah, I'm not sure if it was the sprawl that bored me. I think it just felt like the world was too arbitrary. But then, that probably just means that high fantasy really isn't for me.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#317  Postby VazScep » Mar 24, 2015 9:58 am

smudge wrote:So VazScep, to say "doesn't compare" and then describe why both series are so very very similar seems strange!
There's only one perspective in Lord Foul's Bane, and that's Covenant's, and I didn't really see this developed much in that book. At least, if it is there, it's nowhere near as blatant as it is in the Gap Cycle. And still:

It's entirely driven by characters, conspiracies, complex plotting and pretty hard sci-fi.
The constraints of tight plotting are what I prefer in the Gap Cycle. By the fifth book, I was thinking that Donaldson had tied himself up in so many knots that he was going to be screwed, but he pulls it off epically.

Donaldson takes most of the ire in Nick Lowe's hilarious The Well-tempered Plot Device, because of his apparently inept ability to write plot without the constant use of convenient magical artifacts. This was directed at the Covenant novels and before the Gap cycle, where Donaldson shows he's definitely got chops in the plotting department.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#318  Postby Thommo » Mar 24, 2015 3:58 pm

VazScep wrote:We are. But the weight of people against me says I've probably missed something.


So much quote mining potential here...
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#319  Postby Nostalgia » Mar 24, 2015 4:19 pm

willhud9 wrote:Raymond E Feist takes the gold for most invested fantasy series I involved myself with. His Midkemia novels, especially everything related to Pug/Milamber, are in my opinion the best.

My top 5 authors/series for fantasy are:

Raymond E. Feist for all his riftwar books.
David Eddings for The Belgariad
RA Salvatore for his Forgotten Realms contributions notable Drizzt and more favourably Cadderly Bonaduce
Steven Erickson for The Malazan Book Of The Fallen
and of course Tolkien for his The Hobbit, and Lord of the Rings

I like ASOIAF, but it ranks maybe 8th or 9th on my list of fantasy series, despite being a huge favourite.


I loved the Riftwar series. It was my third foray into high fantasy after LOTR and Jordan's Wheel of Time. So it's been over 10 years since I read it. Maybe I should go back to it. Although after a year of Erikson I think I need some science fiction.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.

#320  Postby VazScep » Mar 24, 2015 8:07 pm

Thommo wrote:
VazScep wrote:We are. But the weight of people against me says I've probably missed something.
So much quote mining potential here...
Possibly, if I read you right.

My problem is that I hate Lord of the Rings and can't for the life of me think why anyone would feel otherwise. I suspect if I had an answer to that, I would be able to appreciate the novels without having to personally enjoy them.
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