I went in expecting a lot more of the usual epic fantasy themes

attempts at depicting sex

j.mills wrote:I must say, you ignorant philistine fool The Plc, that stopping 600 pages into a book sounds rather like swimming two-thirds the way across the English Channel, then turning back because you don't think you'll make it!

I went in expecting a lot more of the usual epic fantasy themes

For my money, a big part of the appeal is the way Martin constantly undercuts one's expectations. As he does, for instance, quite memorably in the ending you didn't read...

j.mills wrote:

attempts at depicting sex

I know, I know. Such a chore reading about sex all the time. Sometimes I can't even take it in, and have to go back and read it again... (Incidentally, if incest and rape and misogyny aren't quite your thing, may I gently steer you away from Donaldson's Gap series? )

Mazille wrote:

j.mills wrote:I must say, you ignorant philistine fool The Plc, that stopping 600 pages into a book sounds rather like swimming two-thirds the way across the English Channel, then turning back because you don't think you'll make it!

I went in expecting a lot more of the usual epic fantasy themes

For my money, a big part of the appeal is the way Martin constantly undercuts one's expectations. As he does, for instance, quite memorably in the ending you didn't read...

Fucking hell, he does it a hundred (or so) pages in, when (SPOILER ALERT) Ned Stark meets his fate.

And that isn't even mentioning his other sudden plot twists, changes in characters' attitudes and philosophies and even unexpected, yet consistent consequences of various characters' outlooks on life.
The undermining of familiar tropes is a big part of the fun to be had in this series.

j.mills wrote:

attempts at depicting sex

I know, I know. Such a chore reading about sex all the time. Sometimes I can't even take it in, and have to go back and read it again... (Incidentally, if incest and rape and misogyny aren't quite your thing, may I gently steer you away from Donaldson's Gap series? )

Considering that GRRM quite likely didn't aim for pleasant or erotic sex scenes (judging from the context) I'll have to say that they were quite appropriate. Even disregarding that, I read better sex scenes, but I also read a fuckload of worse ones.

Edit: Oh, and lest I forget: The Plc, yes, you are a bloody barbarian worthy of taking part in Alaric's sack of Rome. There you go.

The Plc wrote:I read the first 600 pages of the first Fire and Ice novel a few years ago before giving up. I actually enjoyed largely, but I went in expecting a lot more of the usual epic fantasy themes, big battles, prophecy, eminent doomsdays, messiah figures, magical powers, creatures of pure menevolence. It just read like a very fine, imagined 13th century history to me. Plus all the incest and rape and misogyny was unnerving me in its graphic gratuitousness, it reminded me too much of Peter Hamilton (Sci F Author) teenage attempts at depicting sex. I will probably give another go one of these days. Soon, until the new Robert Jordan Wheel of Time comes out.

You may attack me for being an ignorant philistine fool now

The Nazgûl were the rock band that had it all, but their career was extinguished at its peak when their singer was shot dead at a concert in '71. Now it's 10 years later and their erstwhile promoter has been ritually murdered in a manner that connects with that earlier killing. Sandy Blair, a failing novelist and ex-journalist, finds himself embarking on a quest to get to the bottom of the murder.

The journey takes him across America, interviewing the remaining members of the Nazgûl and meeting up with his old friends from the '60s. In everyone he meets he sees the disillusion and dissolution of the '60s dream, and he struggles to reconcile his life now with the idealism of his youth. Meanwhile he discovers that Edan Morse, suspected years ago of social agitation that verged on terrorism, is trying to engineer an unlikely reunion of the Nazgûl, for some dark and disturbing purpose.

The novel is a requiem for the 1960s: its hopes, its liberation, its friendships and most of all its music. I found myself wishing I was at the concerts Martin so thrillingly describes, and that I could go on amazon and order the Nazgûl's albums! But a bigger ambition than nostalgia becomes apparent, as the book edges into supernatural territory and Sandy Blair's fight to maintain his ideals becomes crucial to the future of the world.

Like everything George R R Martin writes, the novel is smoothly engineered, peopled with richly sympathetic characters, deeply felt and boldly imagined. A powerful and satisfying read.