Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

Composition and transformation of substance.

Moderators: Calilasseia, ADParker

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#121  Postby sennekuyl » Jan 09, 2012 10:13 am

Well, I did say 'appear'. Not sure how you can say the first statement and then follow with the second statement which requires the first.

Are you so sure that nothing in those papers indicate that abiogenesis mechanisms are possible, even if all the current hypotheses are wrong? I'm still reading them, so maybe I'm wrong.
Defining Australians:
When returning home from overseas, you expect to be brutally strip-searched by Customs – just in case you're trying to sneak in fruit.
sennekuyl
 
Posts: 2936
Age: 40
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#122  Postby rainbow » Jan 09, 2012 10:20 am

sennekuyl wrote:Well, I did say 'appear'. Not sure how you can say the first statement and then follow with the second statement which requires the first.

Are you so sure that nothing in those papers indicate that abiogenesis mechanisms are possible, even if all the current hypotheses are wrong? I'm still reading them, so maybe I'm wrong.

I didn't say they are not possible.
There is simply no convincing evidence that they will result in self-replicating organisms.
Kill the Wise One!
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155419

"Það er ekki til betri tími en núna til að fresta"
User avatar
rainbow
Banned User
 
Name: Señor Moderato
Posts: 6903

Mozambique (mz)
Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#123  Postby sennekuyl » Jan 09, 2012 10:54 am

:scratch: okay. Seems that everyone agrees? It is possible yet a consensus has yet to be reached.

What was your point again?
Defining Australians:
When returning home from overseas, you expect to be brutally strip-searched by Customs – just in case you're trying to sneak in fruit.
sennekuyl
 
Posts: 2936
Age: 40
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#124  Postby rainbow » Jan 09, 2012 11:04 am

sennekuyl wrote::scratch: okay. Seems that everyone agrees? It is possible yet a consensus has yet to be reached.

Possible is not the same as probable.
Kill the Wise One!
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155419

"Það er ekki til betri tími en núna til að fresta"
User avatar
rainbow
Banned User
 
Name: Señor Moderato
Posts: 6903

Mozambique (mz)
Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#125  Postby Garm » Jan 09, 2012 12:01 pm

rainbow wrote:Possible is not the same as probable.

But do you agree that it is at least the 'most probable' one, based on the information we have today, and therefore warrants research into the possibility of chemical abiogenesis? Or are you of the opinion the research should focus on some other option?
~ Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance. - Will Durant ~
User avatar
Garm
 
Posts: 860
Age: 44
Male

Country: Netherlands Antilles
Netherlands Antilles (an)
Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#126  Postby Laurens » Jan 09, 2012 2:25 pm

rainbow:

Can I ask a question?

You seem to be rather adamant that there is no evidence for abiogenesis (or to be more precise the arising of organic life, from pre-biotic chemistry via natural means), which gives the impression that you are doubtful that it did, or could have happened - if this is the case, what mechanism do you propose is the best explanation for the origin of life on Earth?
"In so far as a scientific statement speaks about reality, it must be falsifiable; and in so far as it is not falsifiable, it does not speak about reality."
- Karl Popper

Blog | Music
User avatar
Laurens
 
Name: Laurens Southgate
Posts: 379
Age: 30
Male

Country: England
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#127  Postby Landrew » Jan 09, 2012 2:38 pm

Without having read the 78 papers proposing a mechanism for abiogenesis, I don't think there is any other possible explanation for how life appeared in this universe. The only proposed alternative I can recall is: "magical creation by a magical being." If science has shown us anything in the last few centuries, it's that magical explanations invariably turn out to be wrong. Therefore, the question shouldn't be: "prove abiogenesis to be true by providing evidence," but it should be: "provide evidence to the contrary."
It's the duty of a Scientist to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.
Landrew
 
Name: greg p
Posts: 782

Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#128  Postby rainbow » Jan 10, 2012 8:17 am

Laurens wrote:rainbow:

Can I ask a question?


Yes indeed, you may.

You seem to be rather adamant that there is no evidence for abiogenesis (or to be more precise the arising of organic life, from pre-biotic chemistry via natural means), which gives the impression that you are doubtful that it did, or could have happened - if this is the case, what mechanism do you propose is the best explanation for the origin of life on Earth?

A Skeptic is allowed to have doubts, without having to offer an alternative explanation.
Kill the Wise One!
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155419

"Það er ekki til betri tími en núna til að fresta"
User avatar
rainbow
Banned User
 
Name: Señor Moderato
Posts: 6903

Mozambique (mz)
Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#129  Postby rainbow » Jan 10, 2012 8:22 am

Garm wrote:
rainbow wrote:Possible is not the same as probable.

But do you agree that it is at least the 'most probable' one, based on the information we have today, and therefore warrants research into the possibility of chemical abiogenesis?

I have absolutely no problem with this research. I watch it with interest.
Or are you of the opinion the research should focus on some other option?

Not unless this other option you propose can justify the research funding. What did you have in mind?
Kill the Wise One!
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155419

"Það er ekki til betri tími en núna til að fresta"
User avatar
rainbow
Banned User
 
Name: Señor Moderato
Posts: 6903

Mozambique (mz)
Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#130  Postby Garm » Jan 10, 2012 8:35 am

Nothing, that's why I asked you? :scratch:
~ Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance. - Will Durant ~
User avatar
Garm
 
Posts: 860
Age: 44
Male

Country: Netherlands Antilles
Netherlands Antilles (an)
Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#131  Postby rainbow » Jan 10, 2012 8:41 am

Garm wrote:Nothing, that's why I asked you? :scratch:

No I don't think that research money should be spent on nothing.
:scratch: :scratch:
Kill the Wise One!
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155419

"Það er ekki til betri tími en núna til að fresta"
User avatar
rainbow
Banned User
 
Name: Señor Moderato
Posts: 6903

Mozambique (mz)
Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#132  Postby byofrcs » Jan 10, 2012 8:48 am

rainbow wrote:
Garm wrote:Nothing, that's why I asked you? :scratch:

No I don't think that research money should be spent on nothing.
:scratch: :scratch:


Then what ?
In America the battle is between common cents distorted by profits and common sense distorted by prophets.
User avatar
byofrcs
RS Donator
 
Name: Lincoln Phipps
Posts: 7906
Age: 53
Male

Country: Tax, sleep, identity ?
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#133  Postby rainbow » Jan 10, 2012 8:51 am

byofrcs wrote:
rainbow wrote:
Garm wrote:Nothing, that's why I asked you? :scratch:

No I don't think that research money should be spent on nothing.
:scratch: :scratch:


Then what ?

No idea.
Ask Garm.
Kill the Wise One!
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155419

"Það er ekki til betri tími en núna til að fresta"
User avatar
rainbow
Banned User
 
Name: Señor Moderato
Posts: 6903

Mozambique (mz)
Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#134  Postby byofrcs » Jan 10, 2012 8:59 am

That's OK then. As long as you're not part of the decision loop then I think everything should be fine as it is.

Here's a cool paper ...

Evolution of increased complexity in a molecular machine, Gregory C. Finnigan, Victor Hanson-Smith, Tom H. Stevens
& Joseph W. Thornton Nature (2012) doi:10.1038/nature10724, 09 January 2012
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/va ... 10724.html
In America the battle is between common cents distorted by profits and common sense distorted by prophets.
User avatar
byofrcs
RS Donator
 
Name: Lincoln Phipps
Posts: 7906
Age: 53
Male

Country: Tax, sleep, identity ?
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#135  Postby rainbow » Jan 10, 2012 9:04 am

What has that paper to do with Abiogenesis?
Kill the Wise One!
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155419

"Það er ekki til betri tími en núna til að fresta"
User avatar
rainbow
Banned User
 
Name: Señor Moderato
Posts: 6903

Mozambique (mz)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#136  Postby byofrcs » Jan 10, 2012 9:27 am

rainbow wrote:What has that paper to do with Abiogenesis?

Do you know what abiogenesis means ?
In America the battle is between common cents distorted by profits and common sense distorted by prophets.
User avatar
byofrcs
RS Donator
 
Name: Lincoln Phipps
Posts: 7906
Age: 53
Male

Country: Tax, sleep, identity ?
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#137  Postby rainbow » Jan 10, 2012 11:00 am

byofrcs wrote:
rainbow wrote:What has that paper to do with Abiogenesis?

Do you know what abiogenesis means ?

Yes.
Please answer my question.
Kill the Wise One!
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155419

"Það er ekki til betri tími en núna til að fresta"
User avatar
rainbow
Banned User
 
Name: Señor Moderato
Posts: 6903

Mozambique (mz)
Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#138  Postby Landrew » Jan 10, 2012 12:15 pm

Abiogenesis and evolution are related, but not the same thing. Evolution requires something like abiogenesis to explain the origin of life.
It's the duty of a Scientist to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.
Landrew
 
Name: greg p
Posts: 782

Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#139  Postby rainbow » Jan 10, 2012 1:12 pm

We are not discussing evolution.
Kill the Wise One!
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155419

"Það er ekki til betri tími en núna til að fresta"
User avatar
rainbow
Banned User
 
Name: Señor Moderato
Posts: 6903

Mozambique (mz)
Print view this post

Re: Calilasseia: 78 Papers on Abiogenesis

#140  Postby Blood » Jan 10, 2012 1:24 pm

:popcorn:
"One absurdity having been granted, the rest follows. Nothing difficult about that."
- Aristotle, Physics I, 185a
User avatar
Blood
 
Posts: 1506
Male

Country: USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Chemistry

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest