High fructose corn syrup

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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#21  Postby Elena » Oct 24, 2010 7:21 pm

Nam Dernor wrote: Sugar pushes our appetite buttons and we've trained ourselves evolved to like it.

The first part of the premise, however, is unrelated to the second (in your version or mine). We've evolved to like (natural) sugars like fructose because they provide calories and our ancestors with a sweet tooth were more likely to survive. The "appetite buttons" would be the hunger induced by the insulin spike triggered by sugar.

If you cut your sugar (and that increasingly means HFCS) intake way back for a few months you will notice that some vegetables and whole grains are remarkably sweet, for example- and you'll be healthier.

This may be true, but how is it relevant to the OP?
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#22  Postby Rumraket » Oct 27, 2010 3:32 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM[/youtube]

Robert H. Lustig, MD, UCSF Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology, explores the damage caused by sugary foods. He argues that fructose (too much) and fiber (not enough) appear to be cornerstones of the obesity epidemic through their effects on insulin. Series: UCSF Mini Medical School for the Public [7/2009] [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 16717]


I'm not a doctor, so I can't claim that this guy is wrong. He seems to know something about the biochemistry involved and the effect (and, importantly, lack thereof) fructose has on your insuline levels etc. etc.

I'm not particularly well read on this subject but I still haven't seen any data that actually refutes what he says in this presentation.
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#23  Postby Tbickle » Oct 27, 2010 4:28 pm

I was on the anti-HFCS bandwagon for a little while, but ultimately I can't find much evidence to support the negative claims. I feel that the worst aspect of HFCS is that it is a calorie dense food that is also very inexpensive. This isn't really a problem until you look at the effects of what these types of foods have done to the obesity rates in the US and countries picking up on our eating habits. Food now costs less, has become easier for our bodies to digest, become more compact, yet offers higher amount of calories per ounce than diets twenty years ago.

There's really no evidence to suggest that HFCS is somehow poisonous to our bodies, has negative impacts to our digestive systems, or creates cravings unlike sugar. I think that it has somehow become the scapegoat for the real problem which is our propensity to crave calorie-dense, enjoyable food that doesn't tax our wallet too greatly.
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#24  Postby Tbickle » Oct 27, 2010 4:29 pm

By the way, if anyone isn't already aware of Brian Dunning's "Skeptoid" blog and podcasts, you should be...

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4157
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#25  Postby Rumraket » Oct 27, 2010 4:38 pm

Interesting, I will propably read that sometime in the next few days.

What made me think in that videopresentation I linked was that Professor Lusting wasn't claiming that Fructose just makes you fat full stop. The problem was that the pentose-sugar(unlike the hexose in glucose) failed to turn on the I'm-full-now-response.
So it's not that fructose contains more energy(it doesn't) and therefore that makes you fatter than other sugars, it's that you can keep eating virtually endless amounts without it making you full, because we don't have hunger-regulating hormones that can "sense" fructose.
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#26  Postby Elena » Oct 27, 2010 5:01 pm

Rumraket wrote:Interesting, I will propably read that sometime in the next few days.

What made me think in that videopresentation I linked was that Professor Lusting wasn't claiming that Fructose just makes you fat full stop. The problem was that the pentose-sugar(unlike the hexose in glucose) failed to turn on the I'm-full-now-response.
So it's not that fructose contains more energy(it doesn't) and therefore that makes you fatter than other sugars, it's that you can keep eating virtually endless amounts without it making you full, because we don't have hunger-regulating hormones that can "sense" fructose.

This has been debunked: http://www.rationalskepticism.org/chemi ... ml#p533883 (detailed in the article linked).
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#27  Postby Shrunk » Oct 27, 2010 5:12 pm

I have to admit, I've been on a bit of the anti HFCS kick for a while now. It's been quite limiting given how ubiquitous the stuff is, but thankfully I haven't been too fanatical about it. Thanks everyone for opening my eyes on this. Just goes to show you should never accept any claims on face value.

I still don't think it's a good situation that it is more lucrative for farmers to grow ingredients for soft drinks instead of actual food, but that's a separate issue.
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#28  Postby Rumraket » Oct 27, 2010 6:43 pm

Elena wrote:
Rumraket wrote:Interesting, I will propably read that sometime in the next few days.

What made me think in that videopresentation I linked was that Professor Lusting wasn't claiming that Fructose just makes you fat full stop. The problem was that the pentose-sugar(unlike the hexose in glucose) failed to turn on the I'm-full-now-response.
So it's not that fructose contains more energy(it doesn't) and therefore that makes you fatter than other sugars, it's that you can keep eating virtually endless amounts without it making you full, because we don't have hunger-regulating hormones that can "sense" fructose.

This has been debunked: http://www.rationalskepticism.org/chemi ... ml#p533883 (detailed in the article linked).

Well, it doesn't seem completely unambigously debunked from that paper. But it certainly casts doubt on a number of the claims Lusting makes. Thx.
The whole tings is obviously a lot more complex than I first gathered from watching his presentation.
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#29  Postby Festeringbob » Nov 05, 2010 3:39 pm

the supposed problem is that fructolysis results in a faster and more direct conversion of fructose into triglycerides than would occur with glucose in glycolysis, and it is only metabolised in the liver unlike glucose
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#30  Postby Alan C » Jan 05, 2011 8:47 am

Interesting thread. I too went with the negative take on HFCS, but lately [like I have with a few other things like msg and particular artificial sweeteners] I figured it was about time I actually looked into a bit more and see if I can find some objective information. Preferably some rigorous studies regarding certain claims.
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#31  Postby rtved » Feb 10, 2011 11:38 am

SpeedOfSound wrote:HFCS contains man made fructose which causes obesity. It's the cause of the biggest health crisis in the US. At least that's what my friend is telling his 7 year old son who reads labels and won't eat anything with HFCS in it.

What do you think?


Corn syrup is AS bad as Plain sugar(Or Glucose) in contributing calories.The More the fructose content higher is the calorie Load.

As far as ' Naturalness' aspect the enzymatic process renders The natural Corn in to a simpler sugar making it absorb fast in the digestive system.
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#32  Postby trubble76 » Feb 10, 2011 11:59 am

Slight derail, but I swapped my usual sugar (plain white processed sugar) for honey in my tea. This is primarily for taste but I suspect it might be slightly healthier for me. Any truth in that, or am I just kidding myself?
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#33  Postby rtved » Feb 10, 2011 12:05 pm

Honey has some vitamins and some natural antioxidants that MAY have health benefits.Calorie wise the story is not much different.In fact honey has more calories thatn Table sugar on weight basis.
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#34  Postby Beatsong » Feb 10, 2011 9:09 pm

rtved wrote:
SpeedOfSound wrote:HFCS contains man made fructose which causes obesity. It's the cause of the biggest health crisis in the US. At least that's what my friend is telling his 7 year old son who reads labels and won't eat anything with HFCS in it.

What do you think?

Corn syrup is AS bad as Plain sugar(Or Glucose) in contributing calories.The More the fructose content higher is the calorie Load.


I did see a video of a long presentation a while back showing chemical reasons why HFCS is worse for you than sucrose, to do with how it's metabolised, but I certainly can't remember the science clearly enough to explain it.

However, I think there are several issues here. There is a lot of evidence mounting that ALL refined sugars are a much bigger contributor to obesity than people previously thought (and contrariwise, that consumption of dietary fats is not the catchall bogeyman that many have believed it was).

Refined sugars also have several other disadvantages, particularly (though not exclusively) relevant to children. The most obvious is that they cause tooth decay. Another however is that they cause fast erratic spikes in blood sugar level, followed by pronounced lows as insulin kicks in and usually over-compensates. This has major implications for mood, alertness, emotional well being and concentration.

It's mainly for these reasons that I try to feed as little refined sugar as possible to my children. I'm not that worried about obesity as they are both pretty slim - most children have a pretty high metabolism and run around a fair bit, and use a lot of energy just growing. OTOH there is a case for establishing good habits, and sugar can be highly addictive. They may not be fat now, but getting into a cycle of needing to perk themselves up with coke and chocolate every time the low hits is not going to do them any favours when they're older.

However I can't say I'm that concerned about the difference between HFCS and table sugar. They're both rubbish, maybe one is slightly more rubbish than the other, I don't know. I certainly think SOS's friend is deluded if he thinks table sugar is perfectly OK because it's "natural".

What he may be getting at in a rather convoluted way is that when fructose occurs naturally in fruits it is accompanied by fibre, and certain vitamins and minerals that aid in its digestion. There are about 15-20 grams of carbs in an average apple which is the same as 3-4 teaspoons of sugar (not sure how much HFCS), but the apple will be much better for you. It's a total package that humans have evolved over millions of years to eat and metabolise effectively. The sugar is the high-energy non-nutritious portion of that package. Not only does it not contain any fibre, but the body needs to USE vitamins and minerals to digest it, so its net effect upon the nutrients in the body is negative, not even zero.

Eating whole natural foods is generally better than eating refined processed ones. It would be a bit of a stretch to include table sugar in the first category though. :)
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#35  Postby Berthold » Feb 17, 2011 6:22 pm

Honey is extremely rich in monosaccharides, too. Well, it's a bit expensive, so people are less likely to overeat on it.
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#36  Postby nojesusknowpeace » Feb 17, 2011 6:38 pm

The biggest causes of obesity for US children are:

1) Indulgent parents
2) Video games
3) The ridiculous (but prevalent) idea that allowing your children to play outside will mean that they will get snatched by a pedo.

You could outlaw corn syrup and the kids will still be fat
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#37  Postby Festeringbob » Mar 07, 2011 6:06 am

nojesusknowpeace wrote:The biggest causes of obesity for US children are:

1) Indulgent parents
2) Video games
3) The ridiculous (but prevalent) idea that allowing your children to play outside will mean that they will get snatched by a pedo.

You could outlaw corn syrup and the kids will still be fat


what journal articles have read on this topic?
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#38  Postby NineOneFour » Mar 07, 2011 9:59 am

Mac_Guffin wrote:I'm curious for reading input on this here.
I keep reading different studies saying different things and I still don't know if it's just another BS attack on something that isn't organic or if there is any truth to it.


Same here. Great thread.
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#39  Postby Tyrannical » Mar 10, 2011 10:34 am

rtved wrote:In fact honey has more calories thatn Table sugar on weight basis.


No it doesn't, honey has about a fifth fewer calories by weight than table sugar due to water content.
By volume, honey has more calories because it is denser.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#As_a_food_and_in_cooking
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Re: High fructose corn syrup

#40  Postby rainbow » Mar 12, 2011 8:13 am

Beatsong wrote:However, I think there are several issues here. There is a lot of evidence mounting that ALL refined sugars are a much bigger contributor to obesity than people previously thought (and contrariwise, that consumption of dietary fats is not the catchall bogeyman that many have believed it was).

Refined sugars also have several other disadvantages, particularly (though not exclusively) relevant to children. The most obvious is that they cause tooth decay. Another however is that they cause fast erratic spikes in blood sugar level, followed by pronounced lows as insulin kicks in and usually over-compensates. This has major implications for mood, alertness, emotional well being and concentration.



Debunking the Myth of the Sugar High

Sugar is certainly not the most nutritious food around, but a recent study says it's also gotten an undeserved bad rap.

Friday, February 1, 2002

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Durham, N.C. -- Chances are, most of us can remember Mom warning us not to eat too much candy or other sweets, or else we'd get hyperactive, start bouncing off the walls and generally act wild from all that sugar. It turns out that, at least this once, Mom was mistaken. Dr. Richard Surwit, chief of medical psychology at Duke University Medical Center, studied sugar's effects on volunteers in a weight-loss program. Not only did subjects lose equal weight on calorie-controlled high-sugar and no-sugar diets, he found no negative side effects.


In fact, Surwit says, the notorious"sugar high" probably comes from treats containing stimulants such as the caffeine in chocolate. And where did this myth come from? Surwit says it originated during World War II, when sugar was in short supply and the government wanted to reduce consumption.

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