Is COVID-19 alive?

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Is COVID-19 alive?

#1  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 20, 2020 8:03 pm

IIRC viruses are not, in fact, alive, as they're incapable of reproducing without infecting a different "superior" cell and co-opting their replication/reproduction structures. Also, if COVID-19 were alive it would be one sex? Blablabla

ETA: perhaps, given this, it's fair to call COVID-19 the "fucking wanker" on the scene, not the "panic buyers" :lol:
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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#2  Postby Svartalf » Mar 20, 2020 8:15 pm

it's a frigging debate among more learned minds than ours Me, I think that it has to be alive it it does have genetic material. the thing's obligatory parasitic nature notwithstanding.
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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#3  Postby theropod_V_2.0 » Mar 20, 2020 8:27 pm

Things that are not alive cannot mutate, and corvid19 is a new and novel virus that didn’t arise from thin air. Reproductive method isn’t a qualification of life.

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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#4  Postby Spearthrower » Mar 20, 2020 8:40 pm

The human mind loves binaries, but nature much prefers gradients. Strict classification may appeal to the way we think but doesn't do well at the fringes.

I'd say viruses are alive; just not very.
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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#5  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 20, 2020 8:46 pm

Accurate comment Spearthrower...Some might say, however (methinks) that it's necessary to have a brain to be truly alive, and in that case, COVID-19 most DEFINATELY is not. So trees aren't alive KIR? Yup, that argument isn't cogent..the Gaia hypothesis? Semantics central.
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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#6  Postby LucidFlight » Mar 20, 2020 9:02 pm

Need input.

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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#7  Postby NineBerry » Mar 20, 2020 10:57 pm

From what I learned in school, viruses are not alive because they don't have their own metabolism.
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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#8  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 20, 2020 11:11 pm

Interesting Nineberry, of course a virus is too small to contain mitochondrion or somesuch,
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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#9  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 20, 2020 11:39 pm

And so how does this virus feed/move around?!
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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#10  Postby theropod_V_2.0 » Mar 20, 2020 11:52 pm

Again, reproduction is one of the qualifiers of a life form. Feeling, moving and all the rest are not required.

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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#11  Postby NineBerry » Mar 20, 2020 11:57 pm

Wikipedia


There is currently no consensus regarding the definition of life. One popular definition is that organisms are open systems that maintain homeostasis, are composed of cells, have a life cycle, undergo metabolism, can grow, adapt to their environment, respond to stimuli, reproduce and evolve. Other definitions sometimes include non-cellular life forms such as viruses and viroids.
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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#12  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 21, 2020 12:06 am

WTF is a viroid?!
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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#13  Postby Fenrir » Mar 21, 2020 12:24 am

Keep It Real wrote:IIRC viruses are not, in fact, alive.


IIRC you have clue zero about the topic.

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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#14  Postby kiore » Mar 21, 2020 2:10 am

The virus has no intent other than to copy itself, everything is about copying/reproducing alive or not alive this is an RNA reproducing thing, harm to the host is incidental and only really becomes an issue for the virus if the host is harmed enough to lower reproductive and or mobility rates. Some harm to the host increases reproductivity such as generating sneezes to project virus particles over distance. some harm to the host reduces reproductivity such as killing the host before successful transfer to a new host. This virus seems a very successful type, not too lethal to quickly harm the host and reduce spread but causing host to do spreading activities like coughing.
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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#15  Postby Scott Mayers » Mar 21, 2020 3:03 am

Although there are different complex variations, I think that I can give an example of what viruses originate from and how they spread.

Think of a living organism as a city with buildings (representing different cell types, or organ classes, like suburbs). Each building cell within building in this analogy has a common 'key' to open the doors to each apartment within, rather than unique locks. Presume that each apartment is 'functional' by taking mail (as representing any information) that have keys to potentially enter, get sorte and either opened or tossed out as junk mail or garbage while sending off other mail.

One mindless job for the 'cell' to do is to open up particular instructions from its 'constitutional' center (DNA nucelii) and create particular letters it is designed to deliver. What a particular cell type (apartment) might do is to send off information useful or not in a particular manilla envelope intended for another cell of its kind. The expectation is that cells like itself would recognize the 'key' (it's external manilla color and size and other possible unique identifiers), open it up and use that as a kind of communication that might be useful in improving successful behaviors. These might be expected only to be to another apartment in the same dwelling.

However, sometimes the outgoing envelope gets misplaced for outgoing mail from the building as a whole. If this kind of envelope has a similar means of being received by other buildings elsewhere, it might be accidentally sent to a building it has no normal expected use. But it might just happen that it is similarly designed as a private inhouse key for apartments in this wrong building. So this envelope gets received but when opened, the information expected to be in some format doesn't match. But the function of this kind of apartment might only operate like a photocopier that opens such manilla envelopes, copies them twice regardless of how easy or difficult it might be in content, then send it out again. Then it might be such that this particular activity for this building's units are only meant for internal apartment communications normally used to alert the others of internal changes. This then goes out to any two apartment within the building to do the same. Because the translation format isn't recognized, each cell won't actually use it before it copies and send it off.

This would be a kind of 'virus' origin that due to the excessive copying without concern for its specific content gets too burdensome as it becomes an exponential occupation until each 'cell' becomes overloaded for being preoccupied with the assumed significance of this activity until it burns out the occupants of each apartment and they 'quit' (representing catastrophe).

In this KIND of virus, the content doesn't matter when it is just data since the origin of it made it as 'data'. So the virus would not require any meaning. The cells it unlocks successfully just falsely interprets the envelope as meaningful and, for this type, would have its own facilities to make the same kind of envelopes by default. It just can't read it the literal data.

This then would be 'not alive' in the way we think but acts as one example of a kind of 'virus' that has no need to intepret the information inside, just to copy it.

There are other complex variations. One example that we have experienced that partly interprets the information before it copies and sends it off, would be the CHAIN LETTER. If you can't read it for it being in a different language, it would be meaningless and get tossed out. But one who could read it and interpret it as meaningful might be compelled to do what it suggests out of concern of what could happen if it doesn't, as many chain letters threaten by means of things like 'bad luck', for instance.

In most kinds of viruses, they originate out of original utility and probably is an original means of evolution updates for DNA for non-sexual reproduction between things like bacteria. Either way, they are just 'data' and so, like DNA or RNA, are not sufficient alone to be useful without the complex coevolution of proteins beyond the DNA itself.

So my vote is 'not alive'. But they act as an essential stage of evolution necessary on a more fundamental level even if they are relatively destructive for those organisms they destroy.
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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#16  Postby Spearthrower » Mar 21, 2020 5:52 am

Keep It Real wrote:Accurate comment Spearthrower...Some might say, however (methinks) that it's necessary to have a brain to be truly alive, and in that case, COVID-19 most DEFINATELY is not. So trees aren't alive KIR? Yup, that argument isn't cogent..the Gaia hypothesis? Semantics central.



Then you're not doing anything relevant to Biology because the vast majority of species on this planet don't have a brain.
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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#17  Postby Spearthrower » Mar 21, 2020 5:56 am

Scott Mayers wrote:*blather*


Wut?


Scott Mayers wrote:So my vote is 'not alive'. But they act as an essential stage of evolution necessary on a more fundamental level even if they are relatively destructive for those organisms they destroy.


Your vote is not alive? Nothing you wrote prior to that led to that conclusion.

There's no such thing as 'stages' of evolution - this isn't the Scala Naturae. This virus evolved from ancestors that can trace their lineage back as long as you can.
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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#18  Postby Fallible » Mar 21, 2020 2:54 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:Although there are different complex variations, I think that I can give an example of what viruses originate from and how they spread.

Think of a living organism as a city with buildings (representing different cell types, or organ classes, like suburbs). Each building cell within building in this analogy has a common 'key' to open the doors to each apartment within, rather than unique locks. Presume that each apartment is 'functional' by taking mail (as representing any information) that have keys to potentially enter, get sorte and either opened or tossed out as junk mail or garbage while sending off other mail.

One mindless job for the 'cell' to do is to open up particular instructions from its 'constitutional' center (DNA nucelii) and create particular letters it is designed to deliver. What a particular cell type (apartment) might do is to send off information useful or not in a particular manilla envelope intended for another cell of its kind. The expectation is that cells like itself would recognize the 'key' (it's external manilla color and size and other possible unique identifiers), open it up and use that as a kind of communication that might be useful in improving successful behaviors. These might be expected only to be to another apartment in the same dwelling.

However, sometimes the outgoing envelope gets misplaced for outgoing mail from the building as a whole. If this kind of envelope has a similar means of being received by other buildings elsewhere, it might be accidentally sent to a building it has no normal expected use. But it might just happen that it is similarly designed as a private inhouse key for apartments in this wrong building. So this envelope gets received but when opened, the information expected to be in some format doesn't match. But the function of this kind of apartment might only operate like a photocopier that opens such manilla envelopes, copies them twice regardless of how easy or difficult it might be in content, then send it out again. Then it might be such that this particular activity for this building's units are only meant for internal apartment communications normally used to alert the others of internal changes. This then goes out to any two apartment within the building to do the same. Because the translation format isn't recognized, each cell won't actually use it before it copies and send it off.

This would be a kind of 'virus' origin that due to the excessive copying without concern for its specific content gets too burdensome as it becomes an exponential occupation until each 'cell' becomes overloaded for being preoccupied with the assumed significance of this activity until it burns out the occupants of each apartment and they 'quit' (representing catastrophe).

In this KIND of virus, the content doesn't matter when it is just data since the origin of it made it as 'data'. So the virus would not require any meaning. The cells it unlocks successfully just falsely interprets the envelope as meaningful and, for this type, would have its own facilities to make the same kind of envelopes by default. It just can't read it the literal data.

This then would be 'not alive' in the way we think but acts as one example of a kind of 'virus' that has no need to intepret the information inside, just to copy it.

There are other complex variations. One example that we have experienced that partly interprets the information before it copies and sends it off, would be the CHAIN LETTER. If you can't read it for it being in a different language, it would be meaningless and get tossed out. But one who could read it and interpret it as meaningful might be compelled to do what it suggests out of concern of what could happen if it doesn't, as many chain letters threaten by means of things like 'bad luck', for instance.

In most kinds of viruses, they originate out of original utility and probably is an original means of evolution updates for DNA for non-sexual reproduction between things like bacteria. Either way, they are just 'data' and so, like DNA or RNA, are not sufficient alone to be useful without the complex coevolution of proteins beyond the DNA itself.

So my vote is 'not alive'. But they act as an essential stage of evolution necessary on a more fundamental level even if they are relatively destructive for those organisms they destroy.


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Re: Is COVID-19 alive?

#19  Postby Hermit » Mar 22, 2020 2:40 am

Fallible wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler: Spoiler tag used as compactor
Although there are different complex variations, I think that I can give an example of what viruses originate from and how they spread.

Think of a living organism as a city with buildings (representing different cell types, or organ classes, like suburbs). Each building cell within building in this analogy has a common 'key' to open the doors to each apartment within, rather than unique locks. Presume that each apartment is 'functional' by taking mail (as representing any information) that have keys to potentially enter, get sorte and either opened or tossed out as junk mail or garbage while sending off other mail.

One mindless job for the 'cell' to do is to open up particular instructions from its 'constitutional' center (DNA nucelii) and create particular letters it is designed to deliver. What a particular cell type (apartment) might do is to send off information useful or not in a particular manilla envelope intended for another cell of its kind. The expectation is that cells like itself would recognize the 'key' (it's external manilla color and size and other possible unique identifiers), open it up and use that as a kind of communication that might be useful in improving successful behaviors. These might be expected only to be to another apartment in the same dwelling.

However, sometimes the outgoing envelope gets misplaced for outgoing mail from the building as a whole. If this kind of envelope has a similar means of being received by other buildings elsewhere, it might be accidentally sent to a building it has no normal expected use. But it might just happen that it is similarly designed as a private inhouse key for apartments in this wrong building. So this envelope gets received but when opened, the information expected to be in some format doesn't match. But the function of this kind of apartment might only operate like a photocopier that opens such manilla envelopes, copies them twice regardless of how easy or difficult it might be in content, then send it out again. Then it might be such that this particular activity for this building's units are only meant for internal apartment communications normally used to alert the others of internal changes. This then goes out to any two apartment within the building to do the same. Because the translation format isn't recognized, each cell won't actually use it before it copies and send it off.

This would be a kind of 'virus' origin that due to the excessive copying without concern for its specific content gets too burdensome as it becomes an exponential occupation until each 'cell' becomes overloaded for being preoccupied with the assumed significance of this activity until it burns out the occupants of each apartment and they 'quit' (representing catastrophe).

In this KIND of virus, the content doesn't matter when it is just data since the origin of it made it as 'data'. So the virus would not require any meaning. The cells it unlocks successfully just falsely interprets the envelope as meaningful and, for this type, would have its own facilities to make the same kind of envelopes by default. It just can't read it the literal data.

This then would be 'not alive' in the way we think but acts as one example of a kind of 'virus' that has no need to intepret the information inside, just to copy it.

There are other complex variations. One example that we have experienced that partly interprets the information before it copies and sends it off, would be the CHAIN LETTER. If you can't read it for it being in a different language, it would be meaningless and get tossed out. But one who could read it and interpret it as meaningful might be compelled to do what it suggests out of concern of what could happen if it doesn't, as many chain letters threaten by means of things like 'bad luck', for instance.

In most kinds of viruses, they originate out of original utility and probably is an original means of evolution updates for DNA for non-sexual reproduction between things like bacteria. Either way, they are just 'data' and so, like DNA or RNA, are not sufficient alone to be useful without the complex coevolution of proteins beyond the DNA itself.

So my vote is 'not alive'. But they act as an essential stage of evolution necessary on a more fundamental level even if they are relatively destructive for those organisms they destroy.

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