A WBC person walks into a college class room

This is educational, sort of, I guess?!?

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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A WBC person walks into a college class room

#1  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 03, 2015 9:38 am

"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#2  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 03, 2015 9:40 am

"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#3  Postby orpheus » Mar 03, 2015 2:18 pm

I can't tell whether this is a public or private school. If public, then of course it's illegal to bring in someone to proselytize - from any religion.

However, I love that this happened, at least with this age group. I'd guess the students may have known about groups like the WBC in the abstract. It's a far, far more powerful thing to be confronted face-to-face with one of their representatives. And she's a great representative. A fantastic ambassador for the WBC. That's a good thing, because it gives the students the starkest possible real-life experience of someone in the grip of religious dogma: arrogant, fearful, defensive, utterly irrational and filled with hatred. That's probably an excellent inoculation against religious extremism. And the more thoughtful students might extend that thinking and cast a skeptical eye on moderate religions — perhaps even their own.
Let's try for peace in 2018, shall we?
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#4  Postby babel » Mar 03, 2015 2:25 pm

I thought the title was the start to a joke.

:door:
Milton Jones: "Just bought a broken second hand time machine - plan to fix it, have lots of adventures then go back and not buy it, he he idiots.."
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#5  Postby Ironclad » Mar 03, 2015 7:04 pm

That woman has got 'the crazy' in her eyes. Weird.

I like the lad.

WBC: "loads of gays commit suicide"
Lad: "because of people like you"
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#6  Postby quisquose » Mar 03, 2015 8:05 pm

I think that lad's a lady.
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#7  Postby TopCat » Mar 03, 2015 8:09 pm

Fook she's scary.
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#8  Postby Ironclad » Mar 03, 2015 8:12 pm

quisquose wrote:I think that lad's a lady.


Oh... :oops:
For Van Youngman - see you amongst the stardust, old buddy

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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#9  Postby orpheus » Mar 03, 2015 8:18 pm

Ironclad wrote:That woman has got 'the crazy' in her eyes. Weird.


I saw that as well. But also a strange and sad mixture of crazy, hate-filled, and (here's the sad part) - fearful. She was so afraid that something would breach the walls of her dogmatic belief. I don't know why; it's different for different people, but often people are frightened that if their belief is undermined, they will fall apart, or be destroyed. Often they don't even consciously experience this as fear - the fear is a huge motivator of behavior, but it's buried down deep at a subconscious level because it's far too terrifying and painful to deal with directly. Instead, what they experience is an overwhelming need to defend their fortress of belief - viciously, and at all cost - and a hatred of those they see as a threat. Moreover, they cannot allow their belief system to have any flaws that would potentially weaken it. Therefore, they must keep their belief system logically coherent, no matter where the logic leads. As a result, they the wind up hanging on to some pretty extreme and (to us) irrational ideas. They cannot give these up - they cannot - because to do so would weaken the rock of dogma onto which they cling for emotional survival.

As easy as it is to hate the woman (and that's my gut-level reaction too), I really find her situation terribly sad. What must it be like to be her? There's a hell of a lot of damage there.

I like the lad.


Me too.

WBC: "loads of gays commit suicide"
Lad: "because of people like you"


This was impressive. Balls of steel, the kid has.
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#10  Postby TopCat » Mar 03, 2015 8:37 pm

orpheus wrote:
Ironclad wrote:That woman has got 'the crazy' in her eyes. Weird.


I saw that as well. But also a strange and sad mixture of crazy, hate-filled, and (here's the sad part) - fearful. She was so afraid that something would breach the walls of her dogmatic belief.

I didn't see any fear there. None at all. We might infer it, as you said, but that's all.

Nor a shadow of doubt. And lots of aggression - she will have had a lot of practice at fighting her corner.

We interpret that as crazy and weird, because there are so few people that are that uncompromising. That hardness is unnatural; it has been conditioned.

She reminds me of Queen Jadis.
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#11  Postby hackenslash » Mar 03, 2015 8:50 pm

I assume we're talking about Shirley Pehlps-Roper. There's no fear there, only complete certainty.
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#12  Postby orpheus » Mar 03, 2015 8:54 pm

This is a related video - including the same woman but also other members and her family.


An hour long, fascinating, and hard to stomach. But there are two brief moments that I find both utterly terrifying and incomparably sad:

14:35 - 14:53. "That kind of thing, and other similar things - natural disasters - it's gonna get more and worse, and it's gonna be so awesome." (emphasis mine) Theroux (the interviewer) doesn't pick up on this. I wish he had, because that, to me, is the most chilling aspect of their conversation: that she looks forward with relish to the destruction of the world.

26:50 - 29:00. The children. This speaks for itself, and it is so, so sad.

I must say that in a lot of this documentary, I think Louis Theroux misses opportunities. He tries to argue with them, to show them how they're wrong. Most of the time this gets a predictable result: they simply dig in their heels. There was no chance of him changing their minds or getting them to admit the craziness of their beliefs and actions. And he did not need to point out to us their craziness. It's obvious to the viewer. Therefore it would have been so much better if he had he taken a completely different approach: don't argue with them; don't try to reason with them; don't try to get them to admit anything wrong about their beliefs and behaviors. Instead, simply ask them questions, follow the conversation where they lead it, and above all, refrain from judgment, argument, or anything they would feel as confrontational. Take them as they are, draw them out, and try honestly to understand their mind-set. They'd reveal much more that way, and that would have been fascinating.
Last edited by orpheus on Mar 04, 2015 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#13  Postby hackenslash » Mar 03, 2015 8:57 pm

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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#14  Postby TopCat » Mar 03, 2015 9:02 pm

orpheus wrote:that, to me, is the most chilling aspect of their conversation: that she looks forward with relish to the destruction of the world.

There can be no greater affirmation in their thinking than God saying 'yep, you chose right, so I'm getting you out of this (while the rest rot)'.

It is chilling, and the disregard for our planet is one of the things I now despise the most about the Christian fundamentalist right wing. But having been there when rapture theology was popular, I completely get it.
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#15  Postby orpheus » Mar 03, 2015 10:04 pm

TopCat wrote:
orpheus wrote:
Ironclad wrote:That woman has got 'the crazy' in her eyes. Weird.


I saw that as well. But also a strange and sad mixture of crazy, hate-filled, and (here's the sad part) - fearful. She was so afraid that something would breach the walls of her dogmatic belief.

I didn't see any fear there. None at all. We might infer it, as you said, but that's all.

Nor a shadow of doubt. And lots of aggression - she will have had a lot of practice at fighting her corner.

We interpret that as crazy and weird, because there are so few people that are that uncompromising. That hardness is unnatural; it has been conditioned.


Yes, and part of what reinforces it — and most rigid beliefs people hold onto — is fear. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. The presentation of characteristics I described are entirely typical of that structure of emotions with overwhelming fear as one of the deep roots. The fact that it's too overwhelming is precisely why it's kept buried in the subconscious. So you're right-- I am inferring it's presence. But not without reason. What you can see are classic and strong indicators that the fear is there, and that it is a huge motivating factor.
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#16  Postby TopCat » Mar 03, 2015 10:09 pm

orpheus wrote:The fact that it's too overwhelming is precisely why it's kept buried in the subconscious. So you're right-- I am inferring it's presence. But not without reason. What you can see are classic and strong indicators that the fear is there, and that it is a huge motivating factor.

Yes, I'm agreeing very violently.
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#17  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 03, 2015 11:08 pm

hackenslash wrote:http://documentaryheaven.com/keith-allen-will-burn-in-hell/

Won't play for me.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#18  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 03, 2015 11:09 pm

orpheus wrote:This is a related video - including the same woman but also other members and her family.


Blocked by BBC wankers. :nono:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#19  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 03, 2015 11:23 pm


She really looks like a witch under certain lighting.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: A WBC person walks into a college class room

#20  Postby orpheus » Mar 03, 2015 11:59 pm

TopCat wrote:
orpheus wrote:The fact that it's too overwhelming is precisely why it's kept buried in the subconscious. So you're right-- I am inferring it's presence. But not without reason. What you can see are classic and strong indicators that the fear is there, and that it is a huge motivating factor.

Yes, I'm agreeing very violently.


Ah, I see. No offense. :cheers:

I've got pretty strong feelings about this whole mess myself.
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