Altruism Therefor God

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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Re: Altruism Therefor God

#21  Postby DaveDodo007 » Jul 08, 2014 2:52 pm

hackenslash wrote:Oh, and just sent a message to the The Week's webmaster:

Why are comments on articles not allowed? When I see intellect-free screeds like Damon Linker's wholly unresearched and idiotic 'Why atheism doesn’t have the upper hand over religion', containing, in one of the most hubristic challenges ever foisted on what is supposedly a decent news outlet, the dare 'Don't buy it? I dare you to come up with something better.', long after evolutionary theory has actually come up with something better and demonstrated its validity (kin selection), it really does require comment.

Any decent course in evolutionary biology requires the reading of certain seminal works, almost always containing Dawkins' 'The Selfish Gene', a book written to explain precisely what your idiot senior correspondent insists can't be answered other than by inventing imaginary friends.

Do you not require that your 'senior correspondents' actually do some research prior to evacuating their intellectual bowels in public in this manner?

Such ignorance requires response, especially when aimed at a specific group of people, and it is to your detriment that you don't allow me to expose the vacuousness of this stupid and worthless piece of polemic for what it is, and the abject ignorance of its author.

Poor show.


Comments are allowed, though you have to use Disqus. There are currently 1194 comments but it's just an atheist/religious bun fight as nearly everyone is ignoring the article.
As long as your ideology identifies the main source of the world's ills as a definable group, it opens the world up to genocide. -Steven Pinker.
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Re: Altruism Therefor God

#22  Postby Will S » Jul 08, 2014 3:07 pm

hackenslash wrote:There's not a law that says that, but there's something like an probabilistic law that says that those who do will, with a statistically significant weighting, send more genes into future generations

Yes, it's probabilistic law, which is why you can't overturn it by citing a single contrary instance. There are plenty of contrary instances in nature e.g. a bee attempting to mate with a bee-like orchid, or a robin attacking an artificial bird which an experimenter has put in its territory. In cases like this, the animal's behaviour is militating against the survival of its own genes.

Incidentally, the author of the piece could equally well have attempted to overturn atheism by citing Taliban suicide bombers. He didn't, because it would have been "evidence" the existence of a kind of God which he himself, presumably, doesn't believe in.
'To a thinking person, a paradox is what the smell of burning rubber is to an electrical engineer' - Sir Peter Medawar (adapted)
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Re: Altruism Therefor God

#23  Postby DavidMcC » Jul 09, 2014 11:24 am

Will S wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:In a way, it does, Will. The reason Linker is up the creek is that he ignores the effect of sociality - kin selection. That makes it sometimes possible to improve your genes' survival by helping a close relative, even at your own expense.

No - you don't need kin selection theory, or any evolutionary account of altruism, to dismiss what the man claims. There's no evolutionary law which states that on each and every occasion an individual will act so as to maximise the probability of the survival of its own genes.

He seems to think that, because he has found one single contrary instance, there's something wrong with received evolutionary theory. That's just wrong.

True, but I was thinking more of the OP, which is specifically about altruism.
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Re: Altruism Therefor God

#24  Postby Cito di Pense » Jul 18, 2014 8:06 am

DavidMcC wrote:
Will S wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:In a way, it does, Will. The reason Linker is up the creek is that he ignores the effect of sociality - kin selection. That makes it sometimes possible to improve your genes' survival by helping a close relative, even at your own expense.

No - you don't need kin selection theory, or any evolutionary account of altruism, to dismiss what the man claims. There's no evolutionary law which states that on each and every occasion an individual will act so as to maximise the probability of the survival of its own genes.

He seems to think that, because he has found one single contrary instance, there's something wrong with received evolutionary theory. That's just wrong.

True, but I was thinking more of the OP, which is specifically about altruism.


Altruism, being an -ism, isn't specifically about anything but itself, as a flavour of special sauce. 'At your own expense' would have to be about some expense that one can actually recognise on the books. That is, it wouldn't lead to an entity called 'altrusim' unless one patriotically (and consciously!) lays down one's life for one's favourite cause, with ideology and justice for all. Circular with the mysterious forces of altruism which are going to require some deliberation on somebody's part, with consciousnessnessnessness.

Completely mechanical responses can lead to kin selection simply because it's something that worked once already.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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