Any bible scholars out there?

Can a christian deny the old testament?

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#161  Postby Fallible » Apr 25, 2017 9:35 am

Please tell me there isn't still someone here who believes Platko to be posting in good faith. It's only the sheer quantity of drivel he's put out which might prevent them from disabusing themselves of this notion by reading his own words on this forum. True, he's continuing to tell lies about what he's done and how other people responded to that in this very thread, but at this stage in his posting career it would take days if not weeks of dedicated reading back through the endless chains of chicanery and goalpost shifting to begin to unravel it all. Let me just say for Penny's sake that the claims he has recently made here are outright lies, and as with much of his piffle, relies solely on his own idiosyncratic redefinition of words which most people understand to mean very different things. That's just the tip of the trolling iceberg though. Pretty much everything he says is disingenuous, unwarrantedly condescending bollocks. If that's really what you're looking for, I suppose that's your prerogative. It just seems rather sad to me that someone will politely entertain this guy's dishonest shit all day long while simultaneously rudely dismissing another member who in my experience always posts in good faith.
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#162  Postby Agrippina » Apr 25, 2017 9:55 am

:this:
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#163  Postby proudfootz » Apr 25, 2017 10:42 am

The Serpent wrote:
zulumoose wrote:Google "jot or tittle"

That is the most quoted bible reference regarding the old testament, basically it is Jesus saying that the entirety of the old laws are valid, jot and tittle is, I believe, the Hebrew equivalent of dotting your i's and crossing your t's.


This. It's red text. The Riz said it and for Christians, it's most inconvenient.


Nothing seems to inconvenience christians AFAICT.

Otherwise we'd see them selling all they have, not caring about where their next meal is coming from, and other Red Text instructions.
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#164  Postby Alan B » Apr 25, 2017 10:52 am

Oh dear! Prayer v meditation!
Is there a word in Aramaic (I presume that this was the language that Jesus spoke & wrote) for meditate as opposed to pray? If there isn’t, then his use of the word ‘pray’ could also mean ‘meditate’.
There are two basic meanings for ‘to meditate’:
1. To empty the mind of thoughts as a religious or spiritual exercise.
2. To engage in deep or serious reflection about a subject matter.
If there is no word for ‘meditate’ as in definition ‘1’, then Jesus would use the word ‘pray’, thereby setting the scene for generations to come since subsequent translators couldn’t discern the difference. If there is a word in Aramaic implying definition ‘2’, it would not have been used in the context of ‘to pray’.
I would suggest that it is possible that the concept of ‘to meditate’ – definition ‘1’ – may not have been recognised as a discrete activity as we do today (in the ‘Eastern religious’ sense).
To argue that some ‘learned body’ has stated that ‘to pray’ is the same as ‘to meditate’ is an ‘Argument from Authority’ and exposes the misconceptions forced upon us by religions and their interpretation of ‘to pray’.
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#165  Postby PensivePenny » Apr 25, 2017 11:04 am

Fallible wrote:Please tell me there isn't still someone here who believes Platko to be posting in good faith. It's only the sheer quantity of drivel he's put out which might prevent them from disabusing themselves of this notion by reading his own words on this forum. True, he's continuing to tell lies about what he's done and how other people responded to that in this very thread, but at this stage in his posting career it would take days if not weeks of dedicated reading back through the endless chains of chicanery and goalpost shifting to begin to unravel it all. Let me just say for Penny's sake that the claims he has recently made here are outright lies, and as with much of his piffle, relies solely on his own idiosyncratic redefinition of words which most people understand to mean very different things. That's just the tip of the trolling iceberg though. Pretty much everything he says is disingenuous, unwarrantedly condescending bollocks. If that's really what you're looking for, I suppose that's your prerogative. It just seems rather sad to me that someone will politelyentertain this guy's dishonest shit all day long while simultaneously rudely dismissing another member who in my experience always posts in good faith.


Whoa. I'm really not sure what your point is. It sounds like you find it "sad" that I was polite? To someone who was polite to me? Is there some problem with that? As for "dismissing another member" well in MY EXPERIENCE that member has been almost exclusively rude to me, in this thread and previous interactions. Without cause.

I doesn't bother me that we've had different experiences. It's even expected. I think someone posted in this thread some remarks Chris Hitchens once made (I'm not familiar with the reference) that he often wondered if other reporters even witnessed the same event because their stories differed so much. Something like that.

So, why are you abusing me, now? I just don't understand that. Aren't you a therapist or something? Is this how you would treat someone in your care? I imagine you would demonstrate patience, compassion and an ear. Not judgement and hostility. John and I weren't debating the bible. He was telling me what he believed. Being kind to him was in no way an endorsement of his beliefs, nor even for him as a person. It was one experience... and a positive one imo. For all I know he could be a serial rapist or child molester (reminiscent of another thread on this forum). I'd appreciate not being beat up because I deigned to sit at the lunch table with the kid everyone in school thinks has cooties.

The politics is petty.
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#166  Postby proudfootz » Apr 25, 2017 11:15 am

Well, assuming there was an Aramaic speaking Jesus here's some examples of how the two words seem to differ (using translate from English to Aramaic):

meditate :: D'RaNeA

http://www.atour.com/cgi-bin/dictionary ... ld=Meaning

pray :: OMeT,K'aSHP,iYN

http://www.atour.com/cgi-bin/dictionary ... ld=Meaning

It would appear there are two very different words, which would seem to indicate a distinction between the two.

But IANAL*

*(I am not a linguist)
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#167  Postby Sendraks » Apr 25, 2017 11:21 am

PensivePenny wrote:So, why are you abusing me, now? I just don't understand that.


I don't understand why you think you are being abused. Perhaps you could point to where Fallible is abusing you?
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#168  Postby PensivePenny » Apr 25, 2017 11:30 am

Sendraks wrote:
PensivePenny wrote:So, why are you abusing me, now? I just don't understand that.


I don't understand why you think you are being abused. Perhaps you could point to where Fallible is abusing you?


To me, and this is just my opinion, mind you... What I hear is manipulation for me to like who she likes, dislike who she doesn't and fall into line. Well, it isn't my experience. She's done this before with me wrt other members to me as well. The thing is, I've actually experienced some of the same shit that's directed at John (not from Fall that I recall), yet I'm probably just as anti-woo and empirical as anyone here. Presumably, this has happened to me because people read some intent into some of my posts that was NEVER intended. There is a bias here to see new or unknown people as having a religious bias.

Accurate or not, that is my experience and impression.
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#169  Postby Fallible » Apr 25, 2017 12:14 pm

PensivePenny wrote:
Fallible wrote:Please tell me there isn't still someone here who believes Platko to be posting in good faith. It's only the sheer quantity of drivel he's put out which might prevent them from disabusing themselves of this notion by reading his own words on this forum. True, he's continuing to tell lies about what he's done and how other people responded to that in this very thread, but at this stage in his posting career it would take days if not weeks of dedicated reading back through the endless chains of chicanery and goalpost shifting to begin to unravel it all. Let me just say for Penny's sake that the claims he has recently made here are outright lies, and as with much of his piffle, relies solely on his own idiosyncratic redefinition of words which most people understand to mean very different things. That's just the tip of the trolling iceberg though. Pretty much everything he says is disingenuous, unwarrantedly condescending bollocks. If that's really what you're looking for, I suppose that's your prerogative. It just seems rather sad to me that someone will politelyentertain this guy's dishonest shit all day long while simultaneously rudely dismissing another member who in my experience always posts in good faith.


Whoa. I'm really not sure what your point is.


I'm expressing an opinion, and my annoyance that this guy is still being given the time of day

It sounds like you find it "sad" that I was polite? To someone who was polite to me? Is there some problem with that?


No, and if I may, what you are doing here seems to be pretty much what you have been doing to Thomas in this thread, by which I mean either mistaking or deliberately misconstruing what was said even when I had very plainly said what I find sad. Which is that you politely entertain a troll all day long while trolling a genuine member of the forum. I deliberately wasn't confrontational towards you in my first post, but since you've decided to respond to me by misrepresenting me, I see no reason why I should not call your posts to Thomas in this thread what they are.

As for "dismissing another member" well in MY EXPERIENCE that member has been almost exclusively rude to me, in this thread and previous interactions. Without cause.

I doesn't bother me that we've had different experiences. It's even expected. I think someone posted in this thread some remarks Chris Hitchens once made (I'm not familiar with the reference) that he often wondered if other reporters even witnessed the same event because their stories differed so much. Something like that.

So, why are you abusing me, now?


You have a bizarre understanding of what constitutes abuse. If anything, my post was an attempt to save you time and energy by giving you a heads-up. If you decide you're not interested that's fine, but there's no need for you to start misrepresenting me by claiming I'm abusing you.

I just don't understand that.


That's because it doesn't make sense and I didn't abuse you.

Aren't you a therapist or something? Is this how you would treat someone in your care?


I swear to god, it's almost as though once people know you're a therapist, you're not allowed to say anything ever that could be construed as argumentative or harsh, and if you do, you're somehow an immoral person. It so often looks like an attempt to shut me up that it's now liable to cause the exact opposite to happen. Are you in my care? No? Then even if I was abusing you, what the fuck would my profession have to do with it? Since I'm not abusing you, your attempt to shame me by implying that my behaviour is morally lacking is even more redundant. You do indeed seem to tend towards quick personalisation in your comments.

I imagine you would demonstrate patience, compassion and an ear. Not judgement and hostility.


As I said, since you are not in my care, this tone policing is completely irrelevant. Of course, it's also the case that I haven't come close to judgement of you or hostility towards you. Well now I have, for which you have your own behaviour to blame, but my first post was an attempt to let you in on something that might save you time and energy. An 'ok well thanks, but I'm fine carrying on the coversation' would have done.

John and I weren't debating the bible. He was telling me what he believed. Being kind to him was in no way an endorsement of his beliefs, nor even for him as a person. It was one experience... and a positive one imo. For all I know he could be a serial rapist or child molester (reminiscent of another thread on this forum).


If you're interested in accuracy, you'll note that I said not a word until Platko began regurgitating outright lies concerning his engagement with other members. At that point, he was not telling you what he believed. He was continuing his previous habitual trolling behaviour. That's what induced me to comment.

I'd appreciate not being beat up because I deigned to sit at the lunch table with the kid everyone in school thinks has cooties.


You haven't been beaten up, stop fibbing. I'd like you to quote me abusing you, or admit that you were mistaken.

Secondly, I didn't comment because you deigned to sit at the lunch table with the kid everyone in school thinks has cooties. I commented because the guy trolls the shit out of people for days, weeks and months, he was starting to do so again in this thread and I thought you might like to know whether the person you're spending so much time on is posting in good faith or not. Now I know how you respond to such actions, I won't waste my breath in future. You have been personally attacking and trolling Thomas in this thread, so I should perhaps not have been surprised.

The politics is petty.


It's nothing to do with politics. If someone tells barefaced, derogatory lies about other people, I will automatically dislike that and comment on that. I don't give a shit that he's a Christian. I give s shit that he lies, misrepresents sources and his interlocutors and trolls the crap out of everyone who he can hook into challenging him, even those who make a concerted effort to cut him mile upon mile of slack.

In your reply, don't forget those quotes of me abusing you and beating you up.
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#170  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 25, 2017 12:20 pm

PensivePenny wrote:LOL...

Thomas, I don't engage in fights with children, the mentally challenged, drunks or people with an axe to grind (and others). I can keep this up all day if you need the typing practice, knock yourself out. :lol:

Still opting for peurile flaming, rather than an honest discussion, I see. :roll:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#171  Postby Fallible » Apr 25, 2017 12:24 pm

PensivePenny wrote:
Sendraks wrote:
PensivePenny wrote:So, why are you abusing me, now? I just don't understand that.


I don't understand why you think you are being abused. Perhaps you could point to where Fallible is abusing you?


To me, and this is just my opinion, mind you... What I hear is manipulation for me to like who she likes, dislike who she doesn't and fall into line. [QWell, it isn't my experience. She's done this before with me wrt other members to me as well.


No I haven't. And I don't know why you would think I was doing that here when I clearly said what I wanted to say with pretty much no room for misunderstanding. Are you trying to get an emotional reaction out of me or something?

The thing is, I've actually experienced some of the same shit that's directed at John (not from Fall that I recall), yet I'm probably just as anti-woo and empirical as anyone here. Presumably, this has happened to me because people read some intent into some of my posts that was NEVER intended. There is a bias here to see new or unknown people as having a religious bias.


You don't even seem to understand what I said, let alone what people may or may not read into your posts. Your comment doesn't make any sense. The guy trolls people - that was the take away from what I wrote, not that he's a Christian. Nowhere have I even hinted that you have religious bias. You just seem to have made that up, ironically, by reading intent into my posts that was never intended.

Accurate or not, that is my experience and impression.


I notice you haven't managed to see your way to posting examples of where I abused you as you were asked. No doubt this was just an oversight which you will rectify right away.
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#172  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 25, 2017 12:25 pm

PensivePenny wrote:
So, why are you abusing me, now? I just don't understand that. Aren't you a therapist or something? Is this how you would treat someone in your care? I imagine you would demonstrate patience, compassion and an ear. Not judgement and hostility. I'd appreciate not being beat up because I deigned to sit at the lunch table with the kid everyone in school thinks has cooties.

The politics is petty.


I think one doth protest to much:
PensivePenny wrote:
I don't sulk when verbally abused or bullied. I always hold my ground. So, if you try any of those things, don't expect me to submit like a sad puppy with my tail between my legs. I got over my daddy issues a long time ago.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#173  Postby PensivePenny » Apr 25, 2017 12:28 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
PensivePenny wrote:LOL...

Thomas, I don't engage in fights with children, the mentally challenged, drunks or people with an axe to grind (and others). I can keep this up all day if you need the typing practice, knock yourself out. :lol:

Still opting for peurile flaming, rather than an honest discussion, I see. :roll:


See? Flaming accusation. I never flamed you. I stated a fact about how I behave.... I don't engage many types of people. I listed some. Frankly, I don't know what category you might fit in. One I listed or one of the (and others). I don't care. I've just identified that this constant misinterpretation of one anothers posts would likely never be resolved. I've responded to you politely for the most part. I have indicated I have no intention nor desire to engage you, yet you persist. In doing so, you indicate you have no respect for my desire. I don't need to justify my feelings.
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#174  Postby proudfootz » Apr 25, 2017 12:36 pm

This thread quickly went off the rails.

I suppose religion tends to tap into people's emotions.
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#175  Postby Fallible » Apr 25, 2017 12:37 pm

I don't think it's religion that's done that here.
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#176  Postby proudfootz » Apr 25, 2017 12:41 pm

You may be right - it could be the personalities of people who like to talk about religion.
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#177  Postby PensivePenny » Apr 25, 2017 12:43 pm

Fallible wrote:
PensivePenny wrote:
Sendraks wrote:
PensivePenny wrote:So, why are you abusing me, now? I just don't understand that.


I don't understand why you think you are being abused. Perhaps you could point to where Fallible is abusing you?


To me, and this is just my opinion, mind you... What I hear is manipulation for me to like who she likes, dislike who she doesn't and fall into line. [QWell, it isn't my experience. She's done this before with me wrt other members to me as well.


No I haven't. And I don't know why you would think I was doing that here when I clearly said what I wanted to say with pretty much no room for misunderstanding. Are you trying to get an emotional reaction out of me or something?

This is a great illustration. See what I said that you quoted? It's my opinion based on my perception. Your response is "No... " In my sphere, people who do that are denying someone their feelings. It is considered rude. Whether your intent is malicious or not, I'm just telling you what I perceive. I'm sorry if that makes you "sad." That wasn't MY attempt.

The thing is, I've actually experienced some of the same shit that's directed at John (not from Fall that I recall), yet I'm probably just as anti-woo and empirical as anyone here. Presumably, this has happened to me because people read some intent into some of my posts that was NEVER intended. There is a bias here to see new or unknown people as having a religious bias.


You don't even seem to understand what I said, let alone what people may or may not read into your posts. Your comment doesn't make any sense. The guy trolls people - that was the take away from what I wrote, not that he's a Christian. Nowhere have I even hinted that you have religious bias. You just seem to have made that up, ironically, by reading intent into my posts that was never intended.

Bueno! You're right! I absolutely may not understand!! I accept that! I accept it with YOU and with Thomas. I cast no blame on it being YOU or HIM. It is OBVIOUS YOU and HE don't understand me EITHER. I have no problem with that. Understanding is subjective. There is a degree of error one in communication, it is my opinion, one should give the benefit of the doubt to the speaker. I often find the opposite true here.

Also, read what you just quoted. Nothing in there indicates ANYTHING about YOU. But, you make it about you? How does THAT happen? I specifically said I have NOT experienced BY YOU any of the treatment I go on to describe. What I'm describing in what you quoted is general comments by some of the members here from whom I HAVE received such treatment.

Yet here I have to FUCKING EXPLAIN it. Explain my opinion. With Thomas, I chose to NOT go down this road because it is silly nonsense. I'm only explaining it to you now to try and get you to see. I accept fully that I may misunderstand someone else. Do you? If so, great.

Accurate or not, that is my experience and impression.


I notice you haven't managed to see your way to posting examples of where I abused you as you were asked. No doubt this was just an oversight which you will rectify right away.


Yeah... here we go...

me: Strawberry ice cream is the best.

others: No it isn't. Prove it! Where's the evidence.

There is a rampant disease on this site that every opinion is assumed to be a CLAIM. It is tedious.
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#178  Postby Sendraks » Apr 25, 2017 12:45 pm

PensivePenny wrote:

To me, and this is just my opinion, mind you... What I hear is manipulation for me to like who she likes, dislike who she doesn't and fall into line. Well, it isn't my experience. She's done this before with me wrt other members to me as well. The thing is, I've actually experienced some of the same shit that's directed at John (not from Fall that I recall), yet I'm probably just as anti-woo and empirical as anyone here. Presumably, this has happened to me because people read some intent into some of my posts that was NEVER intended. There is a bias here to see new or unknown people as having a religious bias.

Accurate or not, that is my experience and impression.


Right, so she's not actually abusing you. That would be entirely a construct of your own making.
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#179  Postby PensivePenny » Apr 25, 2017 12:46 pm

proudfootz wrote:This thread quickly went off the rails.

I suppose religion tends to tap into people's emotions.


Yes, it did... I'll leave it to others to go back and see at what point that was.

Religion IS emotional for a lot of people. Agreed. Plus, it's on a forum. Miscommunication isn't difficult.
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Re: Any bible scholars out there?

#180  Postby PensivePenny » Apr 25, 2017 12:47 pm

Sendraks wrote:
PensivePenny wrote:

To me, and this is just my opinion, mind you... What I hear is manipulation for me to like who she likes, dislike who she doesn't and fall into line. Well, it isn't my experience. She's done this before with me wrt other members to me as well. The thing is, I've actually experienced some of the same shit that's directed at John (not from Fall that I recall), yet I'm probably just as anti-woo and empirical as anyone here. Presumably, this has happened to me because people read some intent into some of my posts that was NEVER intended. There is a bias here to see new or unknown people as having a religious bias.

Accurate or not, that is my experience and impression.


Right, so she's not actually abusing you. That would be entirely a construct of your own making.


Okay. I can accept that possibility. I don't take it personally. Who here is perfect?
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