Bible Contradictions?

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Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#281  Postby Jerome Da Gnome » May 28, 2015 9:48 pm

scott1328 wrote:
The first five books of the bible, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy claim Moses as the author.


Scott, where does it say Moses wrote Deuteronomy?
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#282  Postby tolman » May 28, 2015 10:00 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:I am not arguing for or against atheism, nor am I arguing for or against the bible. I am arguing in the academic sense the subject.

Does 'arguing in the academic sense' include telling lies about why you were sanctioned, or is that just something you do as an extra bit of fun?
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#283  Postby tolman » May 28, 2015 10:09 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:
tolman wrote:
I don't think any atheists I know would consider their lack of belief in gods threatened in the slightest by the bible somehow having been less-badly-written.


Weird then that I have been sanctioned in this thread for another member calling me a troll ...

Apart from that being a moronic non-sequitur, it's also untrue, unless the moderatrion message was private.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#284  Postby tolman » May 28, 2015 10:10 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:Now we will see who is arguing from an honest position.

You owe me a new irony meter.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#285  Postby Jerome Da Gnome » May 28, 2015 10:10 pm

I pointed out someone wrote something racist, then they called me a troll, then I was sanctioned for my post pointing out the racist remark. Based upon the non-sanctioning of those with the 'correct' views in this thread, that is my conclusion as to the reason for the sanction.

Regardless, I see you are attempting to take this thread off topic, so would you like to answer:

Tolman, where does it say Moses wrote Deuteronomy?
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#286  Postby tolman » May 28, 2015 11:47 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:I pointed out someone wrote something racist, then they called me a troll, then I was sanctioned for my post pointing out the racist remark. Based upon the non-sanctioning of those with the 'correct' views in this thread, that is my conclusion as to the reason for the sanction.

Oh dear me, that's so full of shit.

You tried to accuse someone of being antisemitic for suggesting that some Jews wrote the Jewish laws.

Unsuprisingly, the person concerned saw that as attempted trolling, and they made the mistake calling you a troll rather than simply noting that you were trolling yet again, something for which they were sanctioned.

You weren't 'sanctioned for another member calling you a troll', you were sanctioned for your juvenile provocation.
Possibly had they not responded no-one would have got sanctioned, but you were simply not being honest in the claim you made earlier, something which seems par for the course for most of the people who seem to whine about sanctions, for whom everything seems to be someone else's fault.

And I doubt many people here really care what your self-serving 'conclusions' are, even in the event they actually believe your account of what your conclusions are.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#287  Postby scott1328 » May 29, 2015 12:48 am

scott1328 wrote:
Jerome Da Gnome wrote:Scott, where does it say Moses wrote deuteronomy?


scott1328 wrote:Why don't you paraphrase the following into your own words:

scott1328 wrote:

"These are the words Moses spoke to all Israel" then means that Deutoronomy 24 records Moses speaking about the events of his own death. Still a contradiction, either he spoke the words in the subsequent verses or he didn't.



This will tell us two things
1) If you can convey the meaning of my own words without distortion or misrepresentaton :tehe:
2) And how interested you are in honest discussion :rofl:


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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#288  Postby Jerome Da Gnome » May 29, 2015 1:05 am

scott1328 wrote:
The first five books of the bible, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy claim Moses as the author.


Scott, where does it say Moses wrote Deuteronomy?



I guess we found out who is interested in a honest conversation...
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#289  Postby scott1328 » May 29, 2015 1:15 am

I asked you first, you answer my request, then I will answer yours.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#290  Postby Jerome Da Gnome » May 29, 2015 1:20 am

Scott, you made the claim which I have quoted, that was the initiation of this conversation.

I told you that your were wrong and explained how you were wrong.

Now, where does it say Moses wrote Deuteronomy? Or are you ready to admit that it doesn't say Moses wrote Deuteronomy?
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#291  Postby scott1328 » May 29, 2015 1:26 am

Yesterday I dictated a letter to a secretary, who wrote the letter?

No fucking answer my question
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#292  Postby monkeyboy » May 29, 2015 2:02 am

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:
monkeyboy wrote:So anyway, which of the descriptions of Saul's death is the correct one and which of the other three are the contradictions?

Contenders are 1) Saul himself by suicide, 2) God, 3) An Amalekite, 4) Some Philistines.

Or, have I fucked up my reading again and there is somehow no contradiction in the various descriptions of Saul's death? I await my education.


Have you examined the context of the various accounts, like who said and wrote what under what circumstance?

Or rather, did you just hear about this some-wheres and are repeating that which you have little knowledge of?

Are you educated on the subject?

I have read and re-read what the bible says and with regard to Saul's death there are four different depictions thereof. My education on the subject is my ability to read what the book says. It says different things about how a significant character died. Four different things.
Now, stop squirming, evading your task and answer the questions please. I see four accounts of Saul's death. Which is the real one and which ones are the bogus contradictions? And since you bring it to the table, you can throw in the contexts, who said what under what circumstances and perhaps educate me. All I have is my bible and my reading/ comprehension skills, which under normal circumstances work perfectly adequately. I'm fully prepared to be wrong in my understanding of what I have read. So come on, stop beating about the bush and answer the questions.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#293  Postby Agrippina » May 29, 2015 11:21 am

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:"These are the words Moses spoke to all Israel" means someone other than Moses wrote those words, someone else recorded what Moses said to the people, otherwise it would say 'These are the words I, Moses spoke to all Israel.


The answer is a simple one. Let's pretend that Moses did in fact write the Torah, just for argument's sake. The writing in the third person is typical of writing of that period. So someone taking dictation, and then later translators changing the text into modern languages, would stick with the habit of ancient writers speaking in the third person.

The Histories of Herodotus begins with:
Herodotus of Halicarnassus here displays his inquiry, so that human achievements may not become forgotten in time, and great and marvellous deeds - some displayed by Greeks, some by barbarians - may not be without their glory;...

Thuycidides's History of the Peloponnesian War, begins with:
Thuycidides the Athenian wrote the history of the war fought between Athens and Sparta, beginning with the account at the very outbreak of the war, in the belief that it was going to be a great war...


Thus, the people writing down what they claimed were the words of Moses, wrote them in the third person, not because it was necessarily "written" by someone else, but because that someone else was reporting the oral tradition of the story, just as Herodotus did not sit down to write his Histories, or Thuycidides his, but because they were written by scribes who finally put the oral story down in writing.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#294  Postby monkeyboy » May 30, 2015 5:53 pm

monkeyboy wrote:
Jerome Da Gnome wrote:
monkeyboy wrote:So anyway, which of the descriptions of Saul's death is the correct one and which of the other three are the contradictions?

Contenders are 1) Saul himself by suicide, 2) God, 3) An Amalekite, 4) Some Philistines.

Or, have I fucked up my reading again and there is somehow no contradiction in the various descriptions of Saul's death? I await my education.


Have you examined the context of the various accounts, like who said and wrote what under what circumstance?

Or rather, did you just hear about this some-wheres and are repeating that which you have little knowledge of?

Are you educated on the subject?

I have read and re-read what the bible says and with regard to Saul's death there are four different depictions thereof. My education on the subject is my ability to read what the book says. It says different things about how a significant character died. Four different things.
Now, stop squirming, evading your task and answer the questions please. I see four accounts of Saul's death. Which is the real one and which ones are the bogus contradictions? And since you bring it to the table, you can throw in the contexts, who said what under what circumstances and perhaps educate me. All I have is my bible and my reading/ comprehension skills, which under normal circumstances work perfectly adequately. I'm fully prepared to be wrong in my understanding of what I have read. So come on, stop beating about the bush and answer the questions.

Just bumping.
Jerome seems to have either lost interest or hasn't squared his bullshit yet. Could be he's gearing up to admit the presence of clear contradictions, I doubt it though. My money's on silence or bullshit.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#295  Postby Jerome Da Gnome » May 30, 2015 6:18 pm

You have yet to provide citations for your claims. You have just continued to make assertions.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#296  Postby SkyMutt » May 30, 2015 6:31 pm

C'mon, that's not even trying. Where's that good ol' Jerome Da Gnome slippery movement of goalposts, "misreading," and cherry picking?

SkyMutt wrote:
Jerome Da Gnome wrote:
scott1328 wrote:Micah only wrote what God told him to write.


Where does it say Micah was acting as a recording device for god's dictation?

Or rather, it went like this: (according to the story) God told Micah to write down his prayer, and the words written down were what Micah prayed.


Micah 1:1

The word of the Lord that came to Micah the Morasthite in the days of Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, which he saw concerning Samaria and Jerusalem.


I don't know where you got your story, Jerome Da Gnome, but the Bible states unequivocally that the book of Micah is "the word of the Lord."


Jerome Da Gnome wrote:When I tell my secretary to write the accounts of the meeting, then I present those recordings to someone, that is the word of Jerome, even though I did not dictate the words.

Please show where the phrase "word of" is equivalent to "dictation".
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#297  Postby monkeyboy » May 30, 2015 7:13 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:You have yet to provide citations for your claims. You have just continued to make assertions.

How fucking lame. The bible man, the fucking bible. The only book/source I've used. It's in there. I'll be home shortly and will be able to provide chapter and verse for you. Would you like me to read it out for you too?
The Bible is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#298  Postby monkeyboy » May 30, 2015 7:44 pm

OK, home now. Here's my citations. Dug out of the Bible, KJV.

Version 1. The suicide, Saul did it
1 Samuel 31:4-6
Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it. So Saul died.
1 Chronicles 10:4
Then said Saul to his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. So Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.

Version 2. It was God what killed Saul
1 Chronicles 10:14
So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

Version 3 The Amalekite done gone killed Saul
2 Samuel 1:8-10
And he [Saul] said unto me, Who art thou? And I answered him, I am an Amalekite. He said unto me again, Stand, I pray thee, upon me, and slay me. So I stood upon him, and slew him.

Version 4. Twas the pesky Philistines
2 Samuel 21:12
The Philistines had slain Saul.

Now then Jerome. I've done your homework for you. There's the sources for my claims. I used the bible and only the bible. I employed my regular reading and comprehension skills. I used no external sources since I am not arguing anything other than that bible contains contradictory versions of Saul's death.
What say you to that? I would prefer that you extend me the courtesy of providing citations for your answers if I am to follow any counter claims you may have.
The Bible is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#299  Postby scott1328 » May 30, 2015 8:09 pm

scott1328 wrote:
scott1328 wrote:
Jerome Da Gnome wrote:Scott, where does it say Moses wrote deuteronomy?


scott1328 wrote:Why don't you paraphrase the following into your own words:

scott1328 wrote:

"These are the words Moses spoke to all Israel" then means that Deutoronomy 24 records Moses speaking about the events of his own death. Still a contradiction, either he spoke the words in the subsequent verses or he didn't.



This will tell us two things
1) If you can convey the meaning of my own words without distortion or misrepresentaton :tehe:
2) And how interested you are in honest discussion :rofl:


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You have no intention of engaging discussion. Just lies, and misrepresentation.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#300  Postby Jerome Da Gnome » May 30, 2015 8:46 pm

Moneyboy, I will clear one up for you and then you can see how you haven't read fully or read in context. The Amalekite lied, if you had just read a bit further you would already know. Now instead of regurgitating something you read on the internets, why not try just a little reading of the actual full text in context yourself.

The Amalekite thought he would benefit by claiming doing a 'mercy' killing.


13 David said to the young man who brought him the report, “Where are you from?”

“I am the son of a foreigner, an Amalekite,” he answered.

14 David asked him, “Why weren’t you afraid to lift your hand to destroy the Lord’s anointed?”

15 Then David called one of his men and said, “Go, strike him down!” So he struck him down, and he died. 16 For David had said to him, “Your blood be on your own head. Your own mouth testified against you when you said, ‘I killed the Lord’s anointed.’”


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
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