Bible Contradictions?

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Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#301  Postby Jerome Da Gnome » May 30, 2015 9:15 pm

When someone lies in the story, that doesn't mean the story is lying.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

See, when the serpent lied, and they did die, that doesn't mean there is an inconsistency or contradiction in the overall story, it means the story is recording someone lying.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#302  Postby Fenrir » May 30, 2015 9:25 pm

That's some pretty transparent eisegesis right there.

For Saul and for the snake.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#303  Postby Fenrir » May 30, 2015 9:25 pm

That's some pretty transparent eisegesis right there.

For Saul and for the snake.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#304  Postby monkeyboy » May 30, 2015 9:41 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:Moneyboy, I will clear one up for you and then you can see how you haven't read fully or read in context. The Amalekite lied, if you had just read a bit further you would already know. Now instead of regurgitating something you read on the internets, why not try just a little reading of the actual full text in context yourself.

The Amalekite thought he would benefit by claiming doing a 'mercy' killing.


13 David said to the young man who brought him the report, “Where are you from?”

“I am the son of a foreigner, an Amalekite,” he answered.

14 David asked him, “Why weren’t you afraid to lift your hand to destroy the Lord’s anointed?”

15 Then David called one of his men and said, “Go, strike him down!” So he struck him down, and he died. 16 For David had said to him, “Your blood be on your own head. Your own mouth testified against you when you said, ‘I killed the Lord’s anointed.’”


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV


Man you got some fucking hubris. In your own words, "Now instead of regurgitating something you read on the internets, why not try just a little reading of the actual full text in context yourself."

Preceding your little quote there, is the text below. Now I see in the post above, top of this page, that you're trotting out the tiresome, "David had the Amalekite killed for his lying" trope. Funny how that goes. For one minute the Amalekite is a worthy and honest messenger, bringing news of Sauls's death, bringing about spontaneous mourning. Next he's killed for lying about having killed Saul himself and not for the act?

1:2 It came even to pass on the third day, that, behold, a man came out of the camp from Saul with his clothes rent, and earth upon his head: and so it was, when he came to David, that he fell to the earth, and did obeisance.
1:3 And David said unto him, From whence comest thou? And he said unto him, Out of the camp of Israel am I escaped.
1:4 And David said unto him, How went the matter? I pray thee, tell me. And he answered, That the people are fled from the battle, and many of the people also are fallen and dead; and Saul and Jonathan his son are dead also.
1:5 And David said unto the young man that told him, How knowest thou that Saul and Jonathan his son be dead?
1:6 And the young man that told him said, As I happened by chance upon mount Gilboa, behold, Saul leaned upon his spear; and, lo, the chariots and horsemen followed hard after him.
1:7 And when he looked behind him, he saw me, and called unto me. And I answered, Here am I.
1:8 And he said unto me, Who art thou? And I answered him, I am an Amalekite.
1:9 He said unto me again, Stand, I pray thee, upon me, and slay me: for anguish is come upon me, because my life is yet whole in me.
1:10 So I stood upon him, and slew him, because I was sure that he could not live after that he was fallen: and I took the crown that was upon his head, and the bracelet that was on his arm, and have brought them hither unto my lord.
1:11 Then David took hold on his clothes, and rent them; and likewise all the men that were with him:
1:12 And they mourned, and wept, and fasted until even, for Saul, and for Jonathan his son, and for the people of the LORD, and for the house of Israel; because they were fallen by the sword.


So, they certainly believed the Amalekite when he told them that Saul was dead (my bold). SO when did he begin to lie? How can you tell he was lying? Why is it when I read 16 For David had said to him, “Your blood be on your own head. Your own mouth testified against you when you said, ‘I killed the Lord’s anointed., I see that as David having the guy executed for confessing to killing Saul and you see it as him having him killed for lying?
There is no mention of disbelief from David. There is incredulity that he had the audacity to raise his hand against King Saul but no statement that suggests he is being killed for deceit.

Go on my learned chum, puppy walk me through where my comprehension skills are letting me down. Oh, and by the way. Do try not to patronise me by suggesting I haven't read the full accounts and their context, I have.
The Bible is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#305  Postby Jerome Da Gnome » May 30, 2015 10:14 pm

You guys really are working hard here to hide from what is right in front of you.

Simply, a text recording someone lying is not the text lying. Can you really not understand this?
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#306  Postby Onyx8 » May 30, 2015 10:17 pm

I can understand it, you're just wrong. Where does it say he was lying?
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#307  Postby Jerome Da Gnome » May 30, 2015 10:24 pm

Onyx8 wrote:I can understand it, you're just wrong. Where does it say he was lying?


Because we already know how Saul died. The Amalekite was trying to endear himself to David by saying he mercy killed Saul and brought his gear to David as evidence, when we already know this is not true.

Again, the text reporting someone lying is not the text lying.

Do you have any text where it states the words of the Amalekite are infallible?
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#308  Postby Onyx8 » May 30, 2015 10:28 pm

How did Saul die?
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#309  Postby Rumraket » May 30, 2015 10:30 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:You guys really are working hard here to hide from what is right in front of you.

Actually it is obvious that you are the one who is desperate to defend the bible. The story is perfectly clear and you're making shit up to try and avoid the contradiction.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#310  Postby Rumraket » May 30, 2015 10:31 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:
Onyx8 wrote:I can understand it, you're just wrong. Where does it say he was lying?

Again, the text reporting someone lying is not the text lying.

Where does it say he lied?

Desperate, Jerome. Utterly desperate. :coffee:
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#311  Postby Rumraket » May 30, 2015 10:33 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:When someone lies in the story, that doesn't mean the story is lying.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

See, when the serpent lied, and they did die, that doesn't mean there is an inconsistency or contradiction in the overall story, it means the story is recording someone lying.

That's like me telling you right now that, next time you disagree with me, you will die. And then you die at the ripe old age of 87 and then I was right?

:picard:

I like how the insinuation is that god is illiterate, in that he doesn't know how to explain that they will "lose immortality".

An omnipotent being, being incompetent and severely challenged by basic communication. What guff.

Of course, we already know that your excuse here is nothing but an ad-hoc rationalization, an after-the-fact reinterpretation you do for the purpose of trying to save the bible, instead of an honest and open reading of the text.

If nobody had bothered pointing out this contradiction between god's words and what actually happened, you'd have said, if asked, that it means they'd die immediately after eating the apple.

Religious people are pathetic.
Last edited by Rumraket on May 30, 2015 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#312  Postby Jerome Da Gnome » May 30, 2015 10:35 pm

I bet you guys watch movies like this:

Scene 1 : criminal robs bank

Scene 2 : criminal tells cops he didn't rob bank

You guys : fuck this movie, fucking inconsistent contradictory and full of plot holes !!11!!111!11!11
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#313  Postby Onyx8 » May 30, 2015 10:35 pm

How did Saul die, Jerome?
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#314  Postby Rumraket » May 30, 2015 10:52 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:I bet you guys watch movies like this:...

So where does it say he lied?

How'd he die? :whistle:
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#315  Postby Jerome Da Gnome » May 30, 2015 10:57 pm

Scene 1 : criminal robs bank

Scene 2 : criminal tells cops he didn't rob bank

You guys : fuck this movie, fucking inconsistent contradictory and full of plot holes !!11!!111!11!11
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.
-Albert Camus
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#316  Postby monkeyboy » May 30, 2015 11:37 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:You guys really are working hard here to hide from what is right in front of you.

Simply, a text recording someone lying is not the text lying. Can you really not understand this?


Clearly not. Like I asked you, explain it to me. Show me where I'm getting it wrong. Walk me through it. I'm prepared to learn here. Why won't you show me?

Let's start with how Saul died shall we? Then we know at least what's true and what isn't.
The Bible is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#317  Postby scott1328 » May 30, 2015 11:42 pm

And after that, Jerome could explain how Moses dictated the events of his own death.

But, of course he won't. He'll simply go do some more trolling in a different thread.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#318  Postby Rumraket » May 30, 2015 11:43 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:Scene 1 : criminal robs bank

Scene 2 : criminal tells cops he didn't rob bank

You guys : fuck this movie, fucking inconsistent contradictory and full of plot holes !!11!!111!11!11

So where does it say he lied?

How'd he die? :whistle:
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#319  Postby iskander » May 30, 2015 11:47 pm

The Jewish Study Bible translates 2 sam1:10 as follows.
"So I stood over him and finish him off , for I knew that he would never rise from where he was lying, then I took .."


This complements 1 Sam 31 . In 1 Sam 31 , Saul falls on his sword and in 2 Sam 1 he begs the Amalekite to finish him off.
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Re: Bible Contradictions?

#320  Postby iskander » May 31, 2015 12:13 am

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:
scott1328 wrote:
The first five books of the bible, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy claim Moses as the author.


..., where does it say Moses wrote Deuteronomy?



“VeZot haTorah—This is the Torah that Moses set before the people Israel–by the mouth of God, through the hand of Moses.” These phrases, merged from Deuteronomy 4:44 and Numbers 9:23, are recited by traditional Jews each time the Torah is raised to be returned to the Aron Kodesh (Holy Ark). To emphasize the significance of the statement, one frequently sees Jews point at the Torah. “This is it,” traditionalist Jews proclaim, “admittedly a copy written by a scribe, but word for word and letter for letter identical with the one transcribed by Moses as God dictated it.”

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article ... -of-moses/
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