Catholic apologist leaves Church over gay rights issue

Michael Coren converts to Anglicanism

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Catholic apologist leaves Church over gay rights issue

#1  Postby Shrunk » May 02, 2015 7:57 pm

Interview and video here:

Q: You say you could no longer worship with integrity as a Catholic. Why not?

A: I could not remain in a church that effectively excluded gay people. That’s only one of the reasons, but for someone who had taken the Catholic position on same-sex marriage for so long, I’d never been comfortable with that even though I suppose I was regarded as being a stalwart in that position. But I’d moved on, and I felt a hypocrite. I felt a hypocrite being part of a church that described homosexual relations as being disordered and sinful. I just couldn’t be part of it anymore. I could not do that. I couldn’t look people in the eye and make the argument that is still so central to the Catholic Church, that same-sex attraction is acceptable but to act on it is sinful. I felt that the circle of love had to be broadened, not reduced.
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Re: Catholic apologist leaves Church over gay rights issue

#2  Postby Griz_ » May 02, 2015 8:08 pm

So Michael Coren simply chose a different entrée from the Christian buffet because the "Catholic with a White Wine Sauce" was causing him indigestion. This would have been news when the Sun News gravy train was still on the tracks. Now it just reeks of a lame and desperate attempt to be relevant.
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Re: Catholic apologist leaves Church over gay rights issue

#3  Postby Shrunk » May 02, 2015 8:16 pm

Could be. I have to say, that the idea of eating a piece of stale bread while believing it is the body of a 2000 year old dead guy could serve as a fundamental organizing principle of one's life is rather incomprehensible to me.

Still, I have had occasion to nod my head in agreement with Coren on a few issues lately, which I am not accustomed to doing (not that I follow him all that closely, so maybe this isn't that much of a change):

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinio ... 54441.html

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comme ... -are-wrong
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Re: Catholic apologist leaves Church over gay rights issue

#4  Postby Griz_ » May 03, 2015 7:09 pm

I'll give your that. There have been times where I've found myself agreeing with Coren. It always makes me a little uncomfortable and causes me to examine my beliefs; which is always a good thing. As much as I generally disagree with him, he is often capable of helping me to understand the opposing view even though I might reject it. If Coren is considered among the more extreme right wing, conservative Christian media talking heads then I guess we aren't too bad off really. He'd be considered a lightweight in most US States.
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Re: Catholic apologist leaves Church over gay rights issue

#5  Postby felltoearth » May 03, 2015 8:11 pm

I think he may be realigned himself since Ezra Levant's meltdown. The future isn't so bright for retro-cons in this country at the moment.
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Re: Catholic apologist leaves Church over gay rights issue

#6  Postby Shrunk » Jun 11, 2015 8:24 pm

Coren has an article in this month's issue of The Walrus, elaborating on the reasons for his change of heart. Some quotes:

The whole thing is like some theological rabbit hole that gets darker as you descend. It’s also dishonest. I have spoken to hundreds of Catholic groups and parishes over the years, and I would estimate that one out of every three priests is gay, and by no means are they all celibate. (Others have put the number as high as 50 percent.) The joke at the Vatican is that if the Swiss Guard find a priest in bed with a man, they are to ignore it. If with a woman, report it at once. There’s humour in that joke, but also horrifying hypocrisy.

There are Catholic priests in Canada living with their partners, and some of these men are prominent clerics. Living that lie, existing in such a state of moral dissonance, is achingly damaging. One former priest told me that he once visited a senior bishop (I am being purposely vague here) to explain that he was gay and needed to leave the priesthood. The bishop responded that it was okay to stay in the church and that the priest could have a parish outside of the city, where he could live with his lover. None of this, believe me, is shocking to those who truly know the church as insiders....

Recently, I had lunch in downtown Toronto with the publisher of a leading gay Internet site. We talked shop, laughed, drank wine. Family came up, and I showed him some photographs of my wife—the one I am supposed to have cheated on—and he remarked on her good looks. There was a long pause. He turned his phone around and showed me a picture of his husband. Then he looked up: “I was hesitant to show that to you. I was uncomfortable with how you might react.” I felt ashamed and very small.

“You know,” he continued, “you had quite an effect on my life. I’d just come to Toronto—wasn’t even out yet—and I was meeting with a colleague. He went off to the washroom, and I read the newspaper he had with him. It was the Toronto Sun, and you had a column in it that was critical of gay people. Of me, really. It broke my heart.”

The two of us are friends now. But, good Lord, I still have some apologizing to do. Quite a lot, in fact.
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Re: Catholic apologist leaves Church over gay rights issue

#7  Postby Byron » Jun 11, 2015 8:45 pm

He became an Anglican 'cause he believes in gay rights? Say what?

This is a communion that voted through the following resolution in 1998 (at a conference of bishops that Richard Holloway, then Primus of the Scottish branch, compared to a Nuremberg rally):-
This Conference:
  • commends to the Church the subsection report on human sexuality;
  • in view of the teaching of Scripture, upholds faithfulness in marriage between a man and a woman in lifelong union, and believes that abstinence is right for those who are not called to marriage;
  • recognises that there are among us persons who experience themselves as having a homosexual orientation. Many of these are members of the Church and are seeking the pastoral care, moral direction of the Church, and God's transforming power for the living of their lives and the ordering of relationships. We commit ourselves to listen to the experience of homosexual persons and we wish to assure them that they are loved by God and that all baptised, believing and faithful persons, regardless of sexual orientation, are full members of the Body of Christ;
  • while rejecting homosexual practice as incompatible with Scripture, calls on all our people to minister pastorally and sensitively to all irrespective of sexual orientation and to condemn irrational fear of homosexuals, violence within marriage and any trivialisation and commercialisation of sex;
  • cannot advise the legitimising or blessing of same sex unions nor ordaining those involved in same gender unions;
  • requests the Primates and the ACC to establish a means of monitoring the work done on the subject of human sexuality in the Communion and to share statements and resources among us;
  • notes the significance of the Kuala Lumpur Statement on Human Sexuality and the concerns expressed in resolutions IV.26, V.1, V.10, V.23 and V.35 on the authority of Scripture in matters of marriage and sexuality and asks the Primates and the ACC to include them in their monitoring process.

The communion's current leader, Justin Welby, shows every sign of continuing this policy.

Yes, I know the Canadian church is less homophobic than most, but even so, if equality is his priority, it's a bizarre choice of destination.
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Re: Catholic apologist leaves Church over gay rights issue

#8  Postby Strontium Dog » Jun 11, 2015 9:15 pm

He'd have been better off staying Jewish. They've been ordaining gay rabbis for decades.
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Re: Catholic apologist leaves Church over gay rights issue

#9  Postby Shrunk » Jun 11, 2015 9:32 pm

As he says in the article in the OP, he really loves the magical cracker and can't do without it. Anglicanism is the only other place he can get it.

As best as I can tell, the position of the Anglican Church of Canada on SSM is so incoherent, it might as well allow it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual ... _of_Canada
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Re: Catholic apologist leaves Church over gay rights issue

#10  Postby felltoearth » Jul 30, 2017 3:44 pm

Another article, this time about triggered evangelicals.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/comment ... coren.html

Many evangelicals and traditional Roman Catholics like to paint themselves as a persecuted group. They speak of Christian bakers prosecuted for refusing to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding, dressmakers in trouble for rejecting the business of a gay woman wanting to buy a dress for her special day, and so on. Actually, these are cases of discrimination and the law is the law. You can believe whatever you like, be a bigot about whomever you like, but once you withhold services to someone because of their gender, race, religion, or sexuality there are consequences.
If there is persecution it comes from the other side. Believe me, I know. I’m a straight, middle-aged man but when I publicly declared for equal marriage and abandoned by former views I saw the spiteful face of the Christian right close up. My children were targeted, I was called a pedophile, a thief, a liar, and an adulterer, there was a concerted campaign to have me fired from my places of work, and my wife was told to leave me.
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