Christian hymn of creation

Song against naturalism

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#41  Postby Animavore » Nov 24, 2018 11:32 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Animavore wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
Fallible wrote:Wortfish, serious question. Is the gratification you get from trolling really worth the risk of everyone thinking you are a maroon?


We know that many genetic diseases are caused by mistakes in the DNA copying process. God created a good but not perfect/optimal world. God is not to blame if we smoke ourselves silly and get lung cancer.We are the ones to blame.


And what of children who get leukaemia?

Their parents....and natural selection.

Are you saying that God is powerless against the forces of nature?
A most evolved electron.
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#42  Postby Sendraks » Nov 24, 2018 11:33 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Animavore wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
Fallible wrote:Wortfish, serious question. Is the gratification you get from trolling really worth the risk of everyone thinking you are a maroon?


We know that many genetic diseases are caused by mistakes in the DNA copying process. God created a good but not perfect/optimal world. God is not to blame if we smoke ourselves silly and get lung cancer.We are the ones to blame.


And what of children who get leukaemia?

Their parents....and natural selection.


Also created by god.
"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion." - Arthur C Clarke

"'Science doesn't know everything' - Well science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it'd stop" - Dara O'Brian
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#43  Postby SafeAsMilk » Nov 24, 2018 11:43 pm

delete
"They call it the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." -- George Carlin
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#44  Postby Hermit » Nov 25, 2018 2:49 am

Hermit wrote:
Blackadder wrote:
Hermit wrote:
Blackadder wrote:God let my brother die at the age of 12 leaving our (god fearing) parents heartbroken.

God’s a complete cunt, basically.

No, he's not. Your brother's death was caused by a just God for any number of easily justifiable reasons. For instance, he may have begun to develop stirrings of gayness, a disease that is completely curable, but your brother wilfully resisted the cure. Hence the punishment. As for your god fearing, heartbroken parents, they may have used unseemly words in the past - or worse, blasphemed - without seeking God's redemption for those sins. Hence the punishment. See? God is just, and he never makes a mistake.

Ah, I see now. It was all our fault. Thanks for clearing that up. Sorry about that, God. Please carry on with your rainbow manufacturing.

Yes. I am ever so glad you've finally understood the interlocked concepts of free will and original sin.


Wortfish wrote:God is not to blame if we smoke ourselves silly and get lung cancer.We are the ones to blame.

Free will.

Wortfish wrote:
Animavore wrote:
And what of children who get leukaemia?

Their parents....and natural selection.

Original sin.

Wortfish is my hero. He understands everything you don't. :lol:

My favourite proof of god's justice and benevolence; quarter million humans killed within a few hours. I guess Wortfish will argue it's their fault for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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God created the universe
God just exists
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#45  Postby laklak » Nov 25, 2018 3:11 am

According to L. Ron, everything that happens to you is your fault. Natural disasters, cancer, all of it.

But - spend enough money to go clear and reach Operating Thetan V and the world's your oyster and Bob's your uncle. Just ask Tom Cruise.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - Mark Twain
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#46  Postby Fallible » Nov 25, 2018 11:38 am

Wortfish wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:If you need to ask the reason for the appearance of a rainbow, after 300 years of continuous progress in physics, then you need to get out a LOT more ...

You are making the classic error of confusing the agent with the mechanism :naughty:. The reflection/refraction of light through water molecules may be the material cause of how rainbows appear, but the divine agent as efficient cause is the one who sets up the conditions and physical parameters that allow the phenomenon to exist. You might want to ask, "Who made light and who made hydrogen and oxygen atoms"? Ultimately, everything natural has been made by a supernatural creator.



:rofl:
Sorry that you think you had it rough in the first world.
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#47  Postby Fallible » Nov 25, 2018 11:40 am

Wortfish wrote:
Fallible wrote:Wortfish, serious question. Is the gratification you get from trolling really worth the risk of everyone thinking you are a maroon?


We know that many genetic diseases are caused by mistakes in the DNA copying process. God created a good but not perfect/optimal world. God is not to blame if we smoke ourselves silly and get lung cancer.We are the ones to blame.


I see that the answer to my question is an emphatic 'yes'.
Sorry that you think you had it rough in the first world.
You ought to get out a map sooner than later.
Knowledge has turned into a trap; you have to slow down.
Get out of your head and spend less time alone.
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#48  Postby Fallible » Nov 25, 2018 11:43 am

Sendraks wrote:
Wortfish wrote:. God created a good but not perfect/optimal world.


Then god is to blame for creating a not perfect/optimal world.

Wortfish wrote:God is not to blame if we smoke ourselves silly and get lung cancer.We are the ones to blame.


God created the world as not perfect/optimal therefore as the creator of this world, everything is indeed god's fault. If he'd created it perfect/optimal, then this stuff wouldn't happen.

Also there are many forms of cancer and they can occur without a person smoking. Therefore, still god's fault.

Or at least it would be god' fault, if god were shown to exist. A feat yet to be achieved by any number of fuckwitted theists.


Even lung cancer is contracted by people who never smoked a cigarette in their lives. There's really no point correcting someone who probably doesn't believe a word of the crap he comes out with. It's not his goal to be plausible.
Sorry that you think you had it rough in the first world.
You ought to get out a map sooner than later.
Knowledge has turned into a trap; you have to slow down.
Get out of your head and spend less time alone.
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#49  Postby Calilasseia » Nov 25, 2018 3:08 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:If you need to ask the reason for the appearance of a rainbow, after 300 years of continuous progress in physics, then you need to get out a LOT more ...


You are making the classic error of confusing the agent with the mechanism :naughty:.


This presumes in advance that an "agent" actually exists. That presumption itself awaits proper, rigorous test. Which we've been waiting for 5,000 years to see from supernaturalists.

Wortfish wrote:The reflection/refraction of light through water molecules may be the material cause of how rainbows appear, but the divine agent as efficient cause


Oh for fuck's sake, haven't you learned that we've moved on as a species, in the 23 centuries since Aristotle wrote about this?

Aristotle fell into the same trap as a lot of people, namely, thinking that because human beings are responsible for ordered actions arising from intent, that ordered actions arising in nature needed an invisible magic man acting upon intent. Except that, oops, they don't. NONE of the asserted magic entities of any of our mythologies, your favourite one included, has ever shown up, let alone in a reliably repeatable manner. Alleged instances of food vandalism, arising from human pattern matching ability, don't count.

Wortfish wrote:is the one who sets up the conditions and physical parameters that allow the phenomenon to exist. You might want to ask, "Who made light and who made hydrogen and oxygen atoms"?


Hydrogen atoms form naturally, the moment you have a lot of protons and neutrons occupying the same space. Those opposite electric charges do the work.

As for oxygen, see: stellar nucleosynthesis.

Wortfish wrote:Ultimately, everything natural has been made by a supernatural creator.


Bollocks. Mythological magic men are nothing more than figments of the imaginations of ignorant pre-scientific humans. It's testable natural processes all the way down, which have been demonstrated during the past 300 years of scientific advance, to be sufficient to explain vast classes of entities and phenomena, including entities and phenomena that the authors of your sad mythology were incapable of even fantasising about. The authors of your mythology didn't even know of the existence of vast continental land masses on Earth, let alone the majestic panoply of astronomical objects science has since alighted upon, and placed with precise, usefully predictive quantitative frameworks of knowledge. The authors of your mythology didn't know about bacteria, they didn't know the underpinnings of basic genetics, indeed, they were incapable of counting correctly the number of legs that an insect possesses, a task any astute modern day five year old child can accomplish without difficulty. Yet you want to assert here, that the same authors of infantile mythology, that didn't know any of these things, somehow magically alighted upon the keys to the cosmos, whilst 300 years of diligent scientific advance didn't even come within a light year of the bull's eye? You should take this shit to Comedy Central.
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#50  Postby SafeAsMilk » Nov 25, 2018 3:38 pm

Fallible wrote:
Sendraks wrote:
Wortfish wrote:. God created a good but not perfect/optimal world.


Then god is to blame for creating a not perfect/optimal world.

Wortfish wrote:God is not to blame if we smoke ourselves silly and get lung cancer.We are the ones to blame.


God created the world as not perfect/optimal therefore as the creator of this world, everything is indeed god's fault. If he'd created it perfect/optimal, then this stuff wouldn't happen.

Also there are many forms of cancer and they can occur without a person smoking. Therefore, still god's fault.

Or at least it would be god' fault, if god were shown to exist. A feat yet to be achieved by any number of fuckwitted theists.


Even lung cancer is contracted by people who never smoked a cigarette in their lives. There's really no point correcting someone who probably doesn't believe a word of the crap he comes out with. It's not his goal to be plausible.

The problem I'm finding is that if he's a troll, what he means is even stupider than the things he says. It takes no effort to say something stupid that real people actually believe and get folks to respond to it. A toddler could do this. I couldn't imagine being so bored and have so little worthwhile to do, that that would count as an accomplishment. So I've got to at least work under the assumption that he actually believes the dumb shit he says, otherwise he must be even more stupid and lazy than the character he's playing.
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#51  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Nov 25, 2018 4:36 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Fallible wrote:Wortfish, serious question. Is the gratification you get from trolling really worth the risk of everyone thinking you are a maroon?


We know that many genetic diseases are caused by mistakes in the DNA copying process. God created a good but not perfect/optimal world. God is not to blame if we smoke ourselves silly and get lung cancer.We are the ones to blame.

Except people don't get lung cancer exclusively from smoking. Nor do they get other cancers from intentional behavior on their part.
According to your mythology, your loving god created a world filled with unnecessary suffering and destruction.
I know that you cannot admit to it and keep trolling on like you have, but it's transparently clear to anyone not aligned with your dishonest agenda. :roll:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#52  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Nov 25, 2018 4:38 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Animavore wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
Fallible wrote:Wortfish, serious question. Is the gratification you get from trolling really worth the risk of everyone thinking you are a maroon?


We know that many genetic diseases are caused by mistakes in the DNA copying process. God created a good but not perfect/optimal world. God is not to blame if we smoke ourselves silly and get lung cancer.We are the ones to blame.


And what of children who get leukaemia?

Their parents....and natural selection.

Leukaemia did not arise from parents and god created a form of natural selection that results in leukemia and a whole host of other diseases. Your desperate attempts to, at the same time, god created everything but isn't responsible for it, is just silly. :nono:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#53  Postby laklak » Nov 25, 2018 4:40 pm

It wuz te' Debil what done it.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - Mark Twain
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that - Oscar Wilde
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#54  Postby felltoearth » Nov 25, 2018 7:34 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Animavore wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
Fallible wrote:Wortfish, serious question. Is the gratification you get from trolling really worth the risk of everyone thinking you are a maroon?


We know that many genetic diseases are caused by mistakes in the DNA copying process. God created a good but not perfect/optimal world. God is not to blame if we smoke ourselves silly and get lung cancer.We are the ones to blame.


And what of children who get leukaemia?

Their parents....and natural selection.

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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#55  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Nov 25, 2018 9:39 pm

laklak wrote:It wuz te' Debil what done it.

Also created by god though.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#56  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Nov 25, 2018 10:05 pm

What form of leukemia is genetic?
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#57  Postby Wortfish » Nov 26, 2018 2:40 am

Calilasseia wrote:
This presumes in advance that an "agent" actually exists. That presumption itself awaits proper, rigorous test. Which we've been waiting for 5,000 years to see from supernaturalists.


Yes, agents do exist. They use mechanisms to produce desired effects.


Oh for fuck's sake, haven't you learned that we've moved on as a species, in the 23 centuries since Aristotle wrote about this?

Aristotle fell into the same trap as a lot of people, namely, thinking that because human beings are responsible for ordered actions arising from intent, that ordered actions arising in nature needed an invisible magic man acting upon intent. Except that, oops, they don't. NONE of the asserted magic entities of any of our mythologies, your favourite one included, has ever shown up, let alone in a reliably repeatable manner. Alleged instances of food vandalism, arising from human pattern matching ability, don't count.


Artistotle distinguished between the efficient cause that produces the effect and the material cause that serves as the means through which the effect is produced. That is uncontroversial and has nothing to do with any religious claims.

Hydrogen atoms form naturally, the moment you have a lot of protons and neutrons occupying the same space. Those opposite electric charges do the work.


For your information, a hydrogen consists of a single proton orbited by a single electron. So tell me, who/what made protons and electrons and determined their respective charges and masses that are finely balanced?

As for oxygen, see: stellar nucleosynthesis.


And who made the stars? We can play these silly games all day long.

Bollocks. Mythological magic men are nothing more than figments of the imaginations of ignorant pre-scientific humans. It's testable natural processes all the way down, which have been demonstrated during the past 300 years of scientific advance, to be sufficient to explain vast classes of entities and phenomena, including entities and phenomena that the authors of your sad mythology were incapable of even fantasising about. The authors of your mythology didn't even know of the existence of vast continental land masses on Earth, let alone the majestic panoply of astronomical objects science has since alighted upon, and placed with precise, usefully predictive quantitative frameworks of knowledge. The authors of your mythology didn't know about bacteria, they didn't know the underpinnings of basic genetics, indeed, they were incapable of counting correctly the number of legs that an insect possesses, a task any astute modern day five year old child can accomplish without difficulty. Yet you want to assert here, that the same authors of infantile mythology, that didn't know any of these things, somehow magically alighted upon the keys to the cosmos, whilst 300 years of diligent scientific advance didn't even come within a light year of the bull's eye? You should take this shit to Comedy Central.

Irrespective of whether people in the past did not know many things which we know today, they knew of the existence of observable natural processes and mechanisms. They knew that when you heat metals to great temperatures with oxygen you can melt and shape them. They also knew that human agents make use of these physical conditions and laws just as they realised that a supernatural agent was responsible for the tides and the colours in the rainbow by availing of the natural forces (like gravity and refraction) that it established.
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#58  Postby Wortfish » Nov 26, 2018 2:47 am

Animavore wrote:
Are you saying that God is powerless against the forces of nature?

No. God is the ultimate author of the forces of nature that he has established. But that doesn't mean that the forces of nature are bad because they can kill us. They are inherently good.
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#59  Postby SafeAsMilk » Nov 26, 2018 3:08 am

Wortfish wrote:
And who made the stars? We can play these silly games all day long.

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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#60  Postby SafeAsMilk » Nov 26, 2018 3:16 am

Wortfish wrote:
Animavore wrote:
Are you saying that God is powerless against the forces of nature?

No. God is the ultimate author of the forces of nature that he has established. But that doesn't mean that the forces of nature are bad because they can kill us. They are inherently good.

I'm not sure if you're aware of how dumb preaching looks.
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