Christian hymn of creation

Song against naturalism

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#81  Postby LucidFlight » Nov 28, 2018 8:28 am

Fallible wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
Animavore wrote:
So if God isn't powerless against the forces of nature then why won't he do anything about the negative effects of natural selection?
Also if he is the author of the forces of nature, and you say that one of those forces - natural selection - is to blame for leukaemia, then how is God not to blame?

No. God is not powerless but neither is he free to obstruct the natural order that he has created. Everything falls within his providential plan, and this included natural disasters and diseases. My point is that he created everything good and whole, but the inherent imperfection in Nature is to blame for much of the suffering we experience, including our sinful ways.


Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV) wrote:

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


"Lord of Light! Come to us in our darkness. We offer you these false gods. Take them and cast your light upon us. For the night is dark and full of terrors."
―Melisandre prays to R'hllor
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#82  Postby laklak » Nov 28, 2018 3:45 pm

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - Mark Twain
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that - Oscar Wilde
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#83  Postby Cito di Pense » Nov 28, 2018 4:27 pm

laklak wrote:Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.


You could probably benefit from that syrup medicine containing an expectorant agent to help clear all that mucus.

It's the fate of many of us to wind up by drowning in our own snot. In'sh Allah.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#84  Postby Calilasseia » Nov 28, 2018 4:42 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
laklak wrote:Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.


You could probably benefit from that syrup medicine containing an expectorant agent to help clear all that mucus.

It's the fate of many of us to wind up by drowning in our own snot. In'sh Allah.


Oddly, enough, I've had a thermonuclear head cold over the past 5 days or so, and you could float a decent sized naval vessel with what's come out of my nostrils ...
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#85  Postby laklak » Nov 29, 2018 1:57 am

Neither with a bang nor a whimper, but with a wheezy nostril squeak.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - Mark Twain
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that - Oscar Wilde
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#86  Postby Macdoc » Nov 29, 2018 4:24 am

That's what you get for munching on second hand chew toys....ya never whose mouth it's been in :coffee:
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#87  Postby Cito di Pense » Nov 29, 2018 8:32 am

laklak wrote:Neither with a bang nor a whimper, but with a wheezy nostril squeak.


But eyeing little girls with bad intent...
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#88  Postby laklak » Nov 29, 2018 8:12 pm

It was a bit uncomfortable till the poor old sod saw it was only me.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - Mark Twain
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that - Oscar Wilde
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#89  Postby LucidFlight » Nov 30, 2018 2:26 am

laklak wrote:Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.


Mur fy mebyd, Foel Drigarn, Carn Gyfrwy, Tal Fynydd
Wrth fy nghefn ym mhob annibyniaeth barn

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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#90  Postby Evolving » Nov 30, 2018 7:00 am

Ah, there's Waldo.
How extremely stupid not to have thought of that - T.H. Huxley
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#91  Postby Scot Dutchy » Nov 30, 2018 9:39 am

Playing with Polly Carter again.
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#92  Postby Wortfish » Dec 02, 2018 2:06 am

Calilasseia wrote:
The only "agents" we have reliably repeatable and verifiable evidence for, are assorted living organisms. The presumption that an agent other than this exists, is of course what I was referring to above.

Yet we have an entire radio astronomy project that suspects there are living organisms not on planet earth for which we have no repeatable and verifiable evidence of. Some biologists even suspect that aliens seeded our planet with life:

UK Scientists Find Evidence that Aliens May Have Seeded Life on Earth: https://www.outerplaces.com/science/ite ... e-on-earth

Did extraterrestrials deliberately seed the first life on Earth? Astrobiologists from the University of Buckingham have discovered a mysterious object that may have been sent from an intelligent race of aliens to propagate life on our planet. The tiny metal globe, pictured above, is of unknown origin, and is eerily made of both organic and inorganic materials: "It is a ball about the width of a human hair, which has filamentous life on the outside and a gooey biological material oozing from its centre," said team leader Milton Wainwright. The strange, seemingly engineered composition of the object led the researchers to conclude that it could be evidence that life as we know it was deliberately engineered and sent to Earth by an intelligent alien species, or "directed panspermia."


Or could the alien engineers have been angels? Either way, it seems that this is clear evidence for intelligent design,

Except that blindly asserted magic "agents" from mythology don't count as "agents" in reality. They're figments of human imagination. Plus, there are plenty of interactions that are not caused by agents of any sort. Gravity, anyone?


Gravity still depends on mass and the relative distances between them. Newton concluded that, while gravity explained how the earth went round the Sun, only God (the agent) could have carefully arranged the celestial bodies in their orbits.

There was no "who" involved. Oh, and don't try slipping Douglas Adams' Puddle in by the back door.


OK. What determined the mass ratios and charges for protons, neutrons and electrons?

At bottom, particles (or their string landscape equivalents, for those who took the requisite physics classes) are products of quantum fields. Those quantum fields are, as far as physicists can currently ascertain, have always existed. Indeed, that's a point I keep raising whenever questions of the form "what instantiated X" are inserted into discourse, namely, that either explanations (natural or otherwise) will continue diving deeper and deeper into an infinite regress, or will come to a stop at some point with "we can go no further, and this particular X simply exists, as a brute fact".


'Brute fact' arguments don't explain the finely tuned constants of physics.

Bollocks. They merely assumed that an invisible magic man was responsible, because they didn't possess the cognitive powers to work out that lots of interactions continue happening, without any "agent" being responsible. Intentionalist thinking is inherently misleading whenever this is the case.


No. The ancients understood there were regularities. That's how they made their weapons and machines. Of course, they did attribute divine agency to natural phenomena like lightning, for example. However, scientists admit that they don't know what causes lightning, lending weight to the idea of supernatural tinkering: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2012092 ... lightening
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#93  Postby SafeAsMilk » Dec 02, 2018 5:53 am

Wortfish wrote:
Or could the alien engineers have been angels?

:rofl:
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#94  Postby LucidFlight » Dec 02, 2018 7:21 am

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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#95  Postby Blackadder » Dec 02, 2018 7:45 am

Wortfish wrote:
Or could the alien engineers have been angels? Either way, it seems that this is clear evidence for intelligent design,


No it isn't. You don't understand the meaning of "clear evidence".

Wortfish wrote:Newton concluded that, while gravity explained how the earth went round the Sun, only God (the agent) could have carefully arranged the celestial bodies in their orbits.


To do the first part, Newton showed his workings. To do the second part, he pulled an opinion out of his arse. Scientists are only taken seriously when they show their workings. You evidently don't understand science so you wouldn't have a clue about any of this.

Wortfish wrote:OK. What determined the mass ratios and charges for protons, neutrons and electrons?


First explain why there HAD to be a "determined". You can't, without a circular argument that begins with God and ends with God.

Wortfish wrote:'Brute fact' arguments don't explain the finely tuned constants of physics.


You are using "explain" like you used "determined". You still need to explain why they need to be "explained", in the sense that you mean. Funny how you god botherers are happy to spout that "God just is" but you get all pissy when someone claims that Nature "just is".

Wortfish wrote:However, scientists admit that they don't know what causes lightning, lending weight to the idea of supernatural tinkering


Oh, not the old, threadbare god of the gaps argument again. Really? Aren't you embarrassed to post such intellectually vacant rubbish?
That credulity should be gross in proportion to the ignorance of the mind that it enslaves, is in strict consistency with the principle of human nature. - Percy Bysshe Shelley
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#96  Postby Fallible » Dec 02, 2018 11:26 am

That he's not embarrassed is embarrassing in itself.
Sorry that you think you had it rough in the first world.
You ought to get out a map sooner than later.
Knowledge has turned into a trap; you have to slow down.
Get out of your head and spend less time alone.
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#97  Postby BlackBart » Dec 02, 2018 12:08 pm

It's kind of like 'The Universe according to Philomena Cunk'
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#98  Postby Scot Dutchy » Dec 02, 2018 1:02 pm

Please... :lol:
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#99  Postby Wortfish » Dec 02, 2018 10:04 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
Or could the alien engineers have been angels?

:rofl:


Or could angels be aliens? I am open to either possibility.
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Re: Christian hymn of creation

#100  Postby SafeAsMilk » Dec 02, 2018 11:02 pm

Wortfish wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
Or could the alien engineers have been angels?

:rofl:


Or could angels be aliens? I am open to either possibility.

Yes, you've made it quite clear you're open to all sorts of goofy shit, even if there isn't a shred of evidence for it :lol:
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