Church Tells HIV Patients To Stop Treatment

Varangian · #1 by **Varangian** » Nov 26, 2011 9:32 pm

At least six people have died in Britain after being told they had been healed of HIV and could stop taking their medication, Sky News has discovered.

There is evidence evangelical churches in London, Manchester, Birmingham and Glasgow are claiming to cure HIV through God. Sky sent three undercover reporters to the Synagogue Church of All Nations (SCOAN), which is based in Southwark, south London. All of them told the pastors they were HIV positive - all were told they could be healed. Once a month, the church has a prayer line, where people from across Europe come to be cured of all kinds of illness. At registration, they have to hand over a doctor's letter as evidence of their condition. They are filmed giving before and after testimonies, which are put on SCOAN's website. The healing process involves the pastor shouting over the person being healed for the devil to come out of their body, while spraying water in their face.

One of the pastors, Rachel Holmes, told Sky's reporter Shatila, who is a genuine HIV sufferer, they had a 100% success rate.
Ms Holmes said: "We have many people that contract HIV. All are healed."
She said, if symptoms such as vomiting or diarrhoea persist, it is actually a sign of the virus leaving the body.

Full article.

Now, why is this allowed to go on? Is it a case of "there's no harm in having faith"? It fucking well is, and those churches should be closed down.

Byron · #2 by **Byron** » Nov 27, 2011 6:02 am

Anyone who abuses a position of authority to encourage a person to forgo medical treatment should, if a death results, stand trial for manslaughter. Courts in England and America did this to "Christian Science" woo-merchants at the turn of the 20th Century: the approach should be revived.

Ironclad · #3 by **Ironclad** » Nov 27, 2011 6:53 am

hackenslash · #4 by **hackenslash** » Nov 27, 2011 5:55 pm

rustynuts II · #5 by **rustynuts II** » Nov 28, 2011 4:00 pm

Saw this on the New Humanist blog website at lunchtime. F*^@ing disgraceful. The quotes from the church are priceless apologetic bollocks:

"We are not the Healer; God is the Healer. Never a sickness God cannot heal. Never a disease God cannot cure. Never a burden God cannot bear. Never a problem God cannot solve.

"To His power, nothing is impossible. We have not done anything to bring about healing, deliverance or prosperity. If somebody is healed, it is God who heals.

"We must have a genuine desire if we come to God. We are not in position to question anybody's genuine desire. Only God knows if one comes with true desire. Only God can determine this.

"That is why, if anybody comes in the name of God, we pray for them. The outcome of the prayer will determine if they come genuinely or not."

Close them down NOW.

katja z · #6 by **katja z** » Nov 28, 2011 4:18 pm

Byron wrote:Anyone who abuses a position of authority to encourage a person to forgo medical treatment should, if a death results, stand trial for manslaughter. Courts in England and America did this to "Christian Science" woo-merchants at the turn of the 20th Century: the approach should be revived.

But why wait until the patient dies? If it is perfectly clear that discontinuing treatment would result in death, as it is with HIV, shouldn't this by the same token count as an attempted manslaughter, or whatever you'd call it in legal jargon?

(Not to mention that persuading someone that they are "healed" of HIV puts other people into mortal danger as well.)

CarlPierce · #7 by **CarlPierce** » Nov 28, 2011 4:28 pm

Wasn't it Gods will that they got the gift of HIV in the first place? How arrogant to ask him to change his perfect plan just because they don't understand it yet?

Byron · #8 by **Byron** » Nov 28, 2011 9:44 pm

katja z wrote:But why wait until the patient dies? If it is perfectly clear that discontinuing treatment would result in death, as it is with HIV, shouldn't this by the same token count as an attempted manslaughter, or whatever you'd call it in legal jargon?

(Not to mention that persuading someone that they are "healed" of HIV puts other people into mortal danger as well.)

If the jurisdiction allows an attempted manslaughter charge (English common law doesn't) sure. I guess you could get creative with the the laws on professional negligence, though you'd have a helluva time making it stick. I do like the bathos of a fundie preacher being brought to book by the Health and Safety executive!

paarsurrey · #9 by **paarsurrey** » Dec 12, 2011 2:28 am

That is very wrong of the Church; they should follow Jesus. Jesus used both prayer and medicine curing the sick.

Fenrir · **#10** by **Fenrir** » Dec 12, 2011 2:33 am

rustynuts II wrote:Saw this on the New Humanist blog website at lunchtime. F*^@ing disgraceful. The quotes from the church are priceless apologetic bollocks:

"We are not the Healer; God is the Healer. Never a sickness God cannot heal. Never a disease God cannot cure. Never a burden God cannot bear. Never a problem God cannot solve.

"To His power, nothing is impossible. We have not done anything to bring about healing, deliverance or prosperity. If somebody is healed, it is God who heals.

"We must have a genuine desire if we come to God. We are not in position to question anybody's genuine desire. Only God knows if one comes with true desire. Only God can determine this.

"That is why, if anybody comes in the name of God, we pray for them. The outcome of the prayer will determine if they come genuinely or not."

Close them down NOW.

"...and if she weighs the same as a duck"?

"She's a witch, burn her".

ricci1003 · **#11** by **ricci1003** » Dec 20, 2011 6:38 pm

Let's not replace one religion with another: ''science''.

No vaccine, no safe treatment, no cure, no questions after 30 years ! Isn't something ary? In House of Numbers: Anatomy of an Epidemic, an AIDS film like no other, the HIV/AIDS story is being rewritten. This is the first film to present the uncensored POVs of virtually all the major players; in their own settings, in their own words. It rocks the foundation upon which all conventional wisdom regarding ‘HIV/AIDS’ is based. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p-ttLfkZHQ

Horton R. , Guardian. 2010 Jul 7. wrote:Scientists need to take peer review off its pedestal. As an editor [of the prestigious medical journal ‘Lancet’], I know that rigorous peer review is indispensable. But I also know that it is widely misunderstood. Peer review is not the absolute or final arbiter of scientific quality. It does not test the validity of a piece of research. It does not guarantee truth. Peer review can improve the quality of a research paper – it tells you something about the acceptability of new findings among fellow scientists – but the prevailing myths need to be debunked. We need a more realistic understanding about what peer review can do and what it can’t. If we treat peer review as a sacred academic cow, we will continue to let the public down again and again.

!	GENERAL MODNOTE Post edited to reflect quote more accurately. Durro

ricci1003 · **#12** by **ricci1003** » Dec 20, 2011 6:44 pm

6 people have died. How, when, where, who , what were the symptoms during immune deficiency? How many survived/suffered more/less or died in the ARV medicated group over the same period? None of the answers will prove that any of the subjects were ''infected'' with a deadly virus or that ''HIV''' is the cause of ''AIDS'' when ''HIV'' remains to be purified properly.

Paul G · **#13** by **Paul G** » Dec 20, 2011 8:22 pm

katja z · **#14** by **katja z** » Dec 20, 2011 9:02 pm

Paul G wrote:.

Good point.

:popcorn:

cherries · **#15** by **cherries** » Dec 20, 2011 9:30 pm

katja z wrote:
Paul G wrote:.

Good point.

come across this before,it's a nigerian based org based on getting in a lot of donations.
http://www.emmanuel.tv/can't get their website anymore for some reasons.

Sityl · **#16** by **Sityl** » Dec 20, 2011 9:38 pm

paarsurrey wrote:That is very wrong of the Church; they should follow Jesus. Jesus used both prayer and medicine curing the sick.

Please provide the peer-reviewed study based on real world observations that suggests such a thing.

cherries · **#17** by **cherries** » Dec 20, 2011 9:40 pm

paarsurrey · **#18** by **paarsurrey** » Jan 16, 2012 9:04 pm

Sityl wrote:
Please provide the peer-reviewed study based on real world observations that suggests such a thing.

In some parts of the Indian-Sub-Continent the clergy people are called peer; they are just fake people.

Scar · **#19** by **Scar** » Jan 16, 2012 9:19 pm

paarsurrey wrote:
Sityl wrote:
Please provide the peer-reviewed study based on real world observations that suggests such a thing.

In some parts of the Indian-Sub-Continent the clergy people are called peer; they are just fake people.

Stop being disrespectful and answer the questions posed to you.