Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

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Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#1  Postby Keep It Real » Aug 26, 2018 6:28 pm

Exorcism: the battle for young minds (up on iPlayer)

In one of these "exorcisms", a teenage girl is unresponsive for 30 mins odd until, perhaps, she experiences a pseudo-psychotic experience/"religious" experience/stress reaction, brought on by all the pomp, ceremony, her belief and the "Padre" yelling in her face and pushing a crucifix into her chest. She starts yelling and screaming, does and says much as she would believe she should no doubt that she's possessed and the demon doesn't want to go. Ater this she is cured of her bulimia and anorexia.

I have no trouble at all believing she, and many like her, are genuinely cured of their psychological ailments through these "exorcisms". Shame such treatments aren't available to atheists I guess :dunno:

BTW, the documentary is filmed in Argentina and they actually play the theme from The Exorcist in the chapel before the "group exorcism". :point:
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#2  Postby Cito di Pense » Aug 26, 2018 6:40 pm

Keep It Real wrote:Shame such treatments aren't available to atheists I guess


Are you taking the piss, here, KIR? I sure hope so. Maybe my irony meter is broken, today. Appropriate smileys would have helped me no end.

If you're not taking the piss, I think we have a situation where the cure is worse than the disease.
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#3  Postby Fallible » Aug 26, 2018 6:54 pm

Ah, a KIR thread.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#4  Postby Keep It Real » Aug 26, 2018 7:26 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:Shame such treatments aren't available to atheists I guess

Are you taking the piss, here, KIR?

: / not really, no.

Cito di Pense wrote:If you're not taking the piss, I think we have a situation where the cure is worse than the disease.

If I had a choice between anorexia and having a priest scream in my face for 45 minutes I know which I'd choose...
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#5  Postby Keep It Real » Aug 26, 2018 7:28 pm

Fallible wrote:Ah! a KIR thread!


FIFY
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#6  Postby surreptitious57 » Aug 26, 2018 7:33 pm

I heard today that thirty thousand Muslims in Australia prayed for rain and then after that it rained
This thread reminds me of that because while the scenarios are different the principle is the same
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#7  Postby Fallible » Aug 26, 2018 7:42 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Fallible wrote:Ah! a KIR thread!


FIFY


It was perfect as it was.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#8  Postby Fallible » Aug 26, 2018 7:44 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:Shame such treatments aren't available to atheists I guess

Are you taking the piss, here, KIR?

: / not really, no.

Cito di Pense wrote:If you're not taking the piss, I think we have a situation where the cure is worse than the disease.

If I had a choice between anorexia and having a priest scream in my face for 45 minutes I know which I'd choose...


Why do you have no trouble believing that people are cured this way?
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#9  Postby Keep It Real » Aug 26, 2018 7:46 pm

Fallible wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
Fallible wrote:Ah! a KIR thread!


FIFY


It was perfect as it was.


OK but what I did was funny wasn't it? I laughed anyway :lol:
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#10  Postby surreptitious57 » Aug 26, 2018 7:49 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
I have no trouble at all believing she and many like her are cured of their psychological ailments through these exorcisms

Is that because you want an exorcist to cure you of your alcoholism
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#11  Postby Keep It Real » Aug 26, 2018 7:52 pm

Fallible wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
If I had a choice between anorexia and having a priest scream in my face for 45 minutes I know which I'd choose...


Why do you have no trouble believing that people are cured this way?


It just makes sense to me. I was thinking the other day how I, with a diagnosis of schizophrenia, am in fact incapable of ever having a "religious experience" as I'd just right it off to psychosis with hindsight/insight. A well known consequence of extreme stress is temporary psychosis (or, likely more common, "weaker" pseudo-psychosis) and if people believe they've been moved by Jebus etc they could well lose their demons (crikey - no pun intended / :).
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#12  Postby Keep It Real » Aug 26, 2018 7:52 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
I have no trouble at all believing she and many like her are cured of their psychological ailments through these exorcisms

Is that because you want an exorcist to cure you of your alcoholism

No.
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#13  Postby Fallible » Aug 26, 2018 7:56 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Fallible wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
If I had a choice between anorexia and having a priest scream in my face for 45 minutes I know which I'd choose...


Why do you have no trouble believing that people are cured this way?


It just makes sense to me.


How does it?

I was thinking the other day how I, with a diagnosis of schizophrenia, am in fact incapable of ever having a "religious experience" as I'd just right it off to psychosis with hindsight/insight. A well known consequence of extreme stress is temporary psychosis (or, likely more common, "weaker" pseudo-psychosis) and if people believe they've been moved by Jebus etc they could well lose their demons (crikey - no pun intended / :).


Could they? Based on what?
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#14  Postby Keep It Real » Aug 26, 2018 8:00 pm

I guess I'd compare it to hypnosis...brain is boss and brain is malleable.
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#15  Postby Fallible » Aug 26, 2018 8:02 pm

Right, ok.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#16  Postby surreptitious57 » Aug 26, 2018 9:09 pm

Please do not compare hypnosis with exorcism as they have absolutely nothing in common with each other
Hypnosis may not be very well understood but at least it is an actual phenomena but exorcism is just woo
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#17  Postby surreptitious57 » Aug 26, 2018 9:21 pm

A therapist or psychiatrist are who to go to for addressing mental health issues but not a bloody exorcist for Gods sake
Hypnotists are entirely unregulated and anyone can become one so more rigorous scrutiny would be required for them
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#18  Postby SafeAsMilk » Aug 26, 2018 11:12 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Fallible wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
Fallible wrote:Ah! a KIR thread!


FIFY


It was perfect as it was.


OK but what I did was funny wasn't it? I laughed anyway :lol:

I enjoyed it.
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#19  Postby Greyman » Aug 27, 2018 1:17 am

Keep It Real wrote:I have no trouble at all believing she, and many like her, are genuinely cured of their psychological ailments through these "exorcisms". Shame such treatments aren't available to atheists I guess :dunno:
Comparing the success rate to the death rate, it is a bloody good thing, mate.

It is not that long a step from shouting at people to beating them to death because you weren't violent enough for it to work.
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Re: Exorcisms; psychosomatic treatments etc.

#20  Postby zulumoose » Aug 27, 2018 6:37 am

I also have no problem accepting that some people can go to a treatment they believe in and be "cured" when both the problem and the treatment are entirely in the mind, and I don't mean in a chemical sense.

It also makes sense to me that a sceptically minded person will not benefit from these treatments because the belief is not there. You can view that as a down side to critical thinking, but at the same time I would think such a person is far less likely to develop irrational causes for the problems in the first place. If they do, the cause is probably not as superficial, and the treatment therefore would also need to address deeper issues.

So basically, I don't think being suggestible and gullible will likely help you cure anything you didn't develop the same way.
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