John Platko wrote:... There are many control issues with intercessory prayer studies...
Not least that any researcher is looking for something that isn't there
Canonisation
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John Platko wrote:... There are many control issues with intercessory prayer studies...
Shrine of Our Lady of Lourdes prepares program to celebrate jubilee year of the centennial of the apparitions of Fatima
Visit of Pope Francisco will be accompanied in Lourdes with a live transmission from Cova da Iria
The Shrine of Our Lady of Lourdes, in France, wishes to associate to the Shrine of Fatima for the occasion of the celebration of the Centennial of the Apparitions and prepared a special program for the pilgrims who pass there, with a highlight for the visit of Pope Francis, in May, transmitting the emission of the celebrations from the signal distributed by the Shrine of Fatima.
John Platko wrote:newolder wrote:Intercessory prayer definitely does not work.The Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) found two major results:
1) “Intercessory prayer had no effect on recovery from surgery without complications.”
2) “Patients who knew they were receiving intercessory prayer fared worse.”
read on
That study has been debunked on the forum long ago. There are many control issues with intercessory prayer studies.
Meta-studies of the literature in the field have been performed showing evidence only for no effect or a potentially small effect. For instance, a 2006 meta analysis on 14 studies concluded that there is "no discernible effect" while a 2007 systemic review of intercessory prayer reported inconclusive results, noting that 7 of 17 studies had "small, but significant, effect sizes" but the review noted that the most methodologically rigorous studies failed to produce significant findings.
On another note, the Holy Spirit tells me - or perhaps is was just an angel, that there will be an uptick in pilgrimages to the Shrine of Fatima.
newolder wrote:John Platko wrote:newolder wrote:Intercessory prayer definitely does not work.The Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) found two major results:
1) “Intercessory prayer had no effect on recovery from surgery without complications.”
2) “Patients who knew they were receiving intercessory prayer fared worse.”
read on
That study has been debunked on the forum long ago. There are many control issues with intercessory prayer studies.
Then it will be easy for you to supply links.
Here's a relevant wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studies_o ... ory_prayerMeta-studies of the literature in the field have been performed showing evidence only for no effect or a potentially small effect. For instance, a 2006 meta analysis on 14 studies concluded that there is "no discernible effect" while a 2007 systemic review of intercessory prayer reported inconclusive results, noting that 7 of 17 studies had "small, but significant, effect sizes" but the review noted that the most methodologically rigorous studies failed to produce significant findings.On another note, the Holy Spirit tells me - or perhaps is was just an angel, that there will be an uptick in pilgrimages to the Shrine of Fatima.
Your imaginary friends are irrelevant.
The review noted that the most methodologically rigorous studies had failed to produce significant findings.
Would you like to bet against what they whispered in my ear - that visits to the Shrine of Fatima will increase because of the deemed miracles?
newolder wrote:
Nice, but futile, try. Did you read the wiki page and if so, what part ofThe review noted that the most methodologically rigorous studies had failed to produce significant findings.
are you failing to grasp here? (Note: The "review" being a 2007 link in the reference list.)
Would you like to bet against what they whispered in my ear - that visits to the Shrine of Fatima will increase because of the deemed miracles?
Why would I want or like to bet on an irrelevancy? I think visits there may well increase - there's a sucker born every minute, after all.
solazy wrote:Don't believe in miracles but can't actually see the harm in believing in them in this dull old world.
solazy wrote:While there is no real evidence that prayer works it could be a form of mindfulness which helps the brain and body.
John Platko wrote:...
I'll spell it out. The studies are flawed because you can't control who prays for people in the way you can control who actually gets real drugs. Are medical studies involving the administration of drugs done without controls on who actually gets the drugs?
...
Ahhh, perhaps an angel or two also paid a visit to you.
solazy wrote:31 years after she died her face showed no sign of decomposition?
Were the worms on strike?
chairman bill wrote:Of course it's not a fucking miracle. What damage did he do to his frontal cortex? How do we know the extent of this? The brain operates on distributed systems, and often it's the case that minor damage can be by-passed, with the brain connecting alternative routes around the damaged area. That's biology, not supernaturalist bollocks.
I'm With Stupid wrote:solazy wrote:Don't believe in miracles but can't actually see the harm in believing in them in this dull old world.
The harm is when organisations and individuals use such beliefs to exploit poor and vulnerable people in desperate situations. The claims of miracles are basically just a PR exercise for the Catholic church to keep the money rolling in. The "investigations" into miracles are nothing more than an exercise in making sure there's no risk of the people involved coming back to say "actually, we made the whole thing up." Ever wonder why they always wait until the alleged miracle workers and direct witnesses are dead before confirming a miracle?
Evesham Abbey was founded by Saint Egwin at Evesham in Worcestershire, England between 700 and 710 AD following an alleged vision of the Virgin Mary by a swineherd by the name of Eof.
solazy wrote:https://www.voanews.com/a/brazilian-boy-survival-brain-injury-fatima-miracle/3848137.html
So the doctors were wrong and he just had a minor injury.
Shrunk wrote:Of course, I don't really know how the Vatican defines a miracle. Maybe they think doctors are infallible like the Pope, so when they get something wrong it's miraculous.
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