Federal judge orders city to remove cross

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Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#1  Postby NamelessFaceless » Jun 21, 2017 2:16 pm

http://www.pnj.com/story/news/2017/06/1 ... 409343001/

The American Humanist Association, a group that works to protect the rights of humanists, atheists and other non-religious Americans, and the Freedom From Religion Foundation filed a lawsuit in 2016 on behalf of four Escambia County residents who said the cross at Bayview Park violated the separation of church and state.


A cross was erected in a city park in 1941, then replaced in 1969 by a social organization and maintained by the City of Pensacola for the last 48 years was ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge on Monday. Finally.

The residents are, predictably, going apeshit over it. My favorites are the ones who claim that anyone who objects to "our religion" should move to another country! :roll:
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#2  Postby Matthew Shute » Jun 21, 2017 2:26 pm

Maybe the people objecting so strongly to their country's constitution could find themselves a new country to move to. One where the state actively promotes their preferred human sacrifice mythology.
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#3  Postby Manticore » Jun 22, 2017 9:28 am

Matthew Shute wrote:Maybe the people objecting so strongly to their country's constitution could find themselves a new country to move to. One where the state actively promotes their preferred human sacrifice mythology.


Don't want them here - we've got far too many deranged godbotherers already.
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#4  Postby zulumoose » Jun 22, 2017 10:15 am

Matthew Shute wrote:Maybe the people objecting so strongly to their country's constitution could find themselves a new country to move to. One where the state actively promotes their preferred human sacrifice mythology.


The first sentence of this is great, combine that with a mention of the freedom protected by the constitution and you have a winner. Remove the insult to mythology though, that's counter-productive.

Something like:-

"Maybe the people objecting so strongly to their country's constitution could find themselves a new country to move to, one that encourages state promotion and sponsorship of the dominant religion and dislikes the idea of liberty and freedom of choice, a few places in the middle east spring to mind."
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#5  Postby Matthew Shute » Jun 22, 2017 10:31 am

That works.

I enjoy mythologies, though. No insult to mythology in general is implied or intended.
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#6  Postby zulumoose » Jun 22, 2017 10:49 am

It may not be intended as an insult, but you can bet there are very few Christian Americans who would not take their religion being referred to as a human sacrifice mythology as an insult.
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#7  Postby Matthew Shute » Jun 22, 2017 11:01 am

Sure. The remark at Christianity's expense was intended. Bear in mind I'm not addressing an audience of American Christians here, nor do I mind insulting their beliefs. I'm calling out the people NamelessFaceless refers to in her last sentence, pointing out that if anyone is being un-American in this situation, it's them.
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#8  Postby zulumoose » Jun 22, 2017 11:11 am

Bear in mind I'm not addressing an audience of American Christians here


Maybe the people objecting so strongly to their country's constitution could find themselves a new country to move to


So who exactly do you think is objecting to the use of the constitution here to remove a cross in an American public park?

Ok, by "here" you meant on this forum, I see your point now. I was taking your comment as a proposed retort to those who, as per the OP, say those who object to "our" religion should move to another country. (Edited to add this sentence, hopefully before I make a fool of myself)
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#9  Postby Matthew Shute » Jun 22, 2017 11:19 am

Christians in Escambia County who don't care about secularism or their constitution. But I wasn't talking to them or trying to persuade them of anything, since it's unlikely they are reading this. I'm referring to them when talking to another atheist. Not many Christians hang out here, as far as I can tell. The audience for anything I post here will be an audience of non-theists, generally.
Last edited by Matthew Shute on Jun 22, 2017 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#10  Postby zulumoose » Jun 22, 2017 11:20 am

Ok I wasn't in time, please see my edit at the end of my last post
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#11  Postby laklak » Jun 22, 2017 2:06 pm

Escambia? I know two, Alabama and Florida. They border each other, which is kind of strange when you think of it.
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#12  Postby NamelessFaceless » Jun 22, 2017 2:33 pm

laklak wrote:Escambia? I know two, Alabama and Florida. They border each other, which is kind of strange when you think of it.


:lol: I know, right? Seems like someone in the naming committee of at least one of those counties could have raised a hand and said "hey, you guys . . ."

Anyway, this is a big story around here. Everyone is praying and shit. Even our local journalist, who is an atheist, is mad about it.

http://www.pnj.com/story/news/2017/06/2 ... 415978001/

But still, if one cross is allowed here, why not more? Why not everywhere? In this opinion piece I just posted, the author claims the cross is hard to see because it's a big park. That may be true, but it's completely visible from the water because it's near the boat ramp, so any one boating by will see it. Plus there's a city street on the other side, so anyone driving by can see it.

I'm just surprised it took this long for someone to finally object.

The judge left the door open for the city to sell the parcel of land to a private entity, because that's been done before. I hope that doesn't happen here though.
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#13  Postby laklak » Jun 22, 2017 3:09 pm

I don't understand the controversy. It's a religious symbol, on public land, supported by tax dollars. Unconstitutional, full stop, no further fucking discussion, take it down or sell the land. I'm so tired of religious people.
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#14  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jun 22, 2017 3:13 pm

Matthew Shute wrote:That works.

I enjoy mythologies, though. No insult to mythology in general is implied or intended.

It's an insult to compare the bible to great mythologies like those of the ancient greeks or norse. ;)
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#15  Postby The_Piper » Jun 22, 2017 4:44 pm

Greek and Norse mythologies are great? (I've never looked at them.) Great stories or something else?
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#16  Postby The_Piper » Jun 22, 2017 4:50 pm

laklak wrote:Escambia? I know two, Alabama and Florida. They border each other, which is kind of strange when you think of it.

It's interesting. Maybe that area was called Escambia before the state lines were drawn up?
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#17  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jun 22, 2017 5:02 pm

The_Piper wrote:Greek and Norse mythologies are great? (I've never looked at them.) Great stories or something else?

The stories and the gods. Much more human and conniving.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#18  Postby Tracer Tong » Jun 23, 2017 12:19 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
The_Piper wrote:Greek and Norse mythologies are great? (I've never looked at them.) Great stories or something else?
The stories and the gods. Much more human and conniving.


Do provide a quote, rather than an assertion.
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#19  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jun 23, 2017 12:37 pm

Tracer Tong wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
The_Piper wrote:Greek and Norse mythologies are great? (I've never looked at them.) Great stories or something else?
The stories and the gods. Much more human and conniving.


Do provide a quote, rather than an assertion.

Do realise this discussion is about a joking remark, not scientific claim.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Federal judge orders city to remove cross

#20  Postby DanDare » Jun 23, 2017 1:15 pm

The_Piper wrote:Greek and Norse mythologies are great? (I've never looked at them.) Great stories or something else?

It's why my daughters name is Phaedra and my wife is Dianne. Neither is Greek but they are goddesses. I got stuck with the biblical Daniel but the story is at least one of the more cool stories.
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