Gay people, RC church and wafers

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Gay people, RC church and wafers

#1  Postby Girlysprite » Mar 01, 2010 8:59 am

There has been something stirring in the Netherlands again. Some background:

In the south parts of the netherlands, Carnival is quite popular. It's not like the brazillian carnival (it's in the winter for one), but more a party about getting dressed up, acting silly some drinking and partying in general. As part of the folklore a 'prince' is elected in every town, who 'rules' that town for the three days of the Carnival.
One of the villages had the first gay prince ever. Just to be clear, he wasn't a prince from a homosexual organisation, he was one who just happened to be gay. But as he was the first prince to be gay, it was a kind of milestone. But there the trouble started.

The south of this country is quite into the RC church (the north being more protestant). And Carnival often starts with a mass, which the prince attends. But the pastor refused to give him the wafer, because he does not approve of gay people, according to the pastor a church point of view.

Organizations of homosexual people got into n uproar, other people as well, and they started visiting the mass in larger numbers, which made the pastor stop giving wafers at all.

Well, way to go church, chasing away even more people. it just also shows how strong religion can be, that when people who are befouled by it still want to be part of it!
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Re: Gay people, RC church and wafers

#2  Postby sepermeru » Mar 01, 2010 9:42 am

This has happened in the United States occasionally where a priest will deny, or threaten to deny someone who has publicly endorsed abortion, for example. While a priest does sort of have the right under Catholic teachings to deny Communion to anyone he thinks is not qualified, and being in a "state of sin" -- which means you haven't confessed your "sins" or are unrepentant -- is a disqualification, public shaming of this nature by way of denying Communion is actually pretty heavily frowned upon and discouraged by the upper echelons. That is not to defend their evil death cult in any way but just to establish the facts, since an appreciation for facts is one of the traits which separates the rational from the deluded, after all. 8-)
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Re: Gay people, RC church and wafers

#3  Postby angelo » Mar 01, 2010 11:42 am

I wonder what the criteria is if the priest is a closet homosexual? :lol:
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Re: Gay people, RC church and wafers

#4  Postby Girlysprite » Mar 01, 2010 11:47 am

So many priests are closet homosexual. In the past when it wasn't accepted at all, being a priest was a nice escape route for homosexuals. Not that they would get sex (unless well, you know) they could escape from a marriage they didn't want.

And as a strange result, homophobia amongst priests is even bigger, as many of them are hiding from themselves.
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Re: Gay people, RC church and wafers

#5  Postby crank » Mar 01, 2010 12:05 pm

I don't want to start an argument but probably will, fuck that I don't care:No self-respecting gay can be religious, period. There is too much of a disconnect there, too clear a line between religious belief and and the ability to develop attitudes such as that slimy, host-denying cleric demonstrated. Fuck them, fuck them all, they can take their religion and shove it up their ass-come hear baby jesus
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Re: Gay people, RC church and wafers

#6  Postby Girlysprite » Mar 01, 2010 12:12 pm

Edited to make it more correct...

I don't want to start an argument but probably will, fuck that I don't care:No self-respecting gay person can be religious, period. There is too much of a disconnect there, too clear a line between religious belief and and the ability to develop attitudes such as that slimy, host-denying cleric demonstrated. Fuck them, fuck them all, they can take their religion and shove it up their ass-come hear baby jesus
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Re: Gay people, RC church and wafers

#7  Postby angelo » Mar 01, 2010 12:14 pm

Girlysprite wrote:So many priests are closet homosexual. In the past when it wasn't accepted at all, being a priest was a nice escape route for homosexuals. Not that they would get sex (unless well, you know) they could escape from a marriage they didn't want.

And as a strange result, homophobia amongst priests is even bigger, as many of them are hiding from themselves.


I think they are more of pedophiles than just straight gay. How else can be explained that it's usually little boys they molest.
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Re: Gay people, RC church and wafers

#8  Postby sepermeru » Mar 01, 2010 12:23 pm

angelo wrote:
Girlysprite wrote:So many priests are closet homosexual. In the past when it wasn't accepted at all, being a priest was a nice escape route for homosexuals. Not that they would get sex (unless well, you know) they could escape from a marriage they didn't want.

And as a strange result, homophobia amongst priests is even bigger, as many of them are hiding from themselves.


I think they are more of pedophiles than just straight gay. How else can be explained that it's usually little boys they molest.


What on earth is "straight gay"? :grin:

They're are not any kind of gay at all, regardless of the gender of child they may prefer. Most will molest any child given the opportunity. Pedophilia is a dysfunctional orientation, not a fetish that tacks on to another orientation. In the same way that healthy people want to have sex with men or women or both, pedophiles are into children. They're not gay/straight and also pedophiles. They're just pedophiles.

However, there are priests who molested children, a lot of them, which is very, very bad. But there are also some priests who had sexual encounters with 16 and 17 year old boys. Sometimes those boys were consenting, but because of the stigma, their parents declared them to be innocent children taken in by an evil pervert. This happens everywhere, not just in religion, of course. These two kinds of priests are usually both called pedophiles (though this is technically not true) and lumped together, but obviously one could make a argument that the latter kind may in fact just be gay and repressed. But the majority of the abuse cases were real and had nothing to do with gayness.
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Re: Gay people, RC church and wafers

#9  Postby Eduard » Mar 01, 2010 12:34 pm

crank wrote:I don't want to start an argument but probably will, fuck that I don't care:No self-respecting gay can be religious, period. There is too much of a disconnect there, too clear a line between religious belief and and the ability to develop attitudes such as that slimy, host-denying cleric demonstrated. Fuck them, fuck them all, they can take their religion and shove it up their ass-come hear baby jesus


Yes it boggles the mind. The majority of gay people, at some stage of their life, had to question life and the norms of the society they live in. The only reason I can think of a gay person being seriously religious is that their delusion gives them some comfort when they can't face who they are and what society thinks of them. Obviously there are other possibilities, but this makes the most sense for me :crazy:

But yes, there are thousands of more constructive ways in gaining such comfort as opposed to feeding religious delusions ;)
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Re: Gay people, RC church and wafers

#10  Postby angelo » Mar 01, 2010 12:40 pm

sepermeru wrote:
angelo wrote:
Girlysprite wrote:So many priests are closet homosexual. In the past when it wasn't accepted at all, being a priest was a nice escape route for homosexuals. Not that they would get sex (unless well, you know) they could escape from a marriage they didn't want.

And as a strange result, homophobia amongst priests is even bigger, as many of them are hiding from themselves.


I think they are more of pedophiles than just straight gay. How else can be explained that it's usually little boys they molest.


What on earth is "straight gay"? :grin:

They're are not any kind of gay at all, regardless of the gender of child they may prefer. Most will molest any child given the opportunity. Pedophilia is a dysfunctional orientation, not a fetish that tacks on to another orientation. In the same way that healthy people want to have sex with men or women or both, pedophiles are into children. They're not gay/straight and also pedophiles. They're just pedophiles.

However, there are priests who molested children, a lot of them, which is very, very bad. But there are also some priests who had sexual encounters with 16 and 17 year old boys. Sometimes those boys were consenting, but because of the stigma, their parents declared them to be innocent children taken in by an evil pervert. This happens everywhere, not just in religion, of course. These two kinds of priests are usually both called pedophiles (though this is technically not true) and lumped together, but obviously one could make a argument that the latter kind may in fact just be gay and repressed. But the majority of the abuse cases were real and had nothing to do with gayness.

Out and out homosexual/gay is what I meant. The point is most of these monsters molest little boys, very few little girls, and even if both, they are pedophiles first, homosexual second.
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Re: Gay people, RC church and wafers

#11  Postby crank » Mar 01, 2010 12:49 pm

While I agree with the posters quoting my post (well, they mostly agree with me, obviously their perspicacity cannot be questioned), I can't abide their leaving out my pic of the baby jesus butt plug, which brings a smile and chuckle to me every time I see it, so to make amends:

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Re: Gay people, RC church and wafers

#12  Postby sepermeru » Mar 01, 2010 7:13 pm

angelo wrote:
Out and out homosexual/gay is what I meant. The point is most of these monsters molest little boys, very few little girls, and even if both, they are pedophiles first, homosexual second.


Priests molest boys because they have access to boys. Again, most child molesters may have a preference, but very much UNLIKE a gay or straight person they can most often easily disregard gender in choosing victims. Do you think a homosexual is someone who is attracted to the same gender but also attracted to the opposite gender? Because that is the only way you can describe an actual, full pedophile as a homosexual, but it's clearly not what the word means. If anything they tend to be functionally bisexual, though again they are not bisexuals, because a bisexual is someone who is attracted to adults of both genders. Gay, straight, and bi all refer to a specific sexual orientation which includes, by definition, the fact that the attraction is for adults.

Also, have you ever in your life heard someone refer to a "straight" pedophile, as such? No, for some reason it's only the ones that choose the same gender to victimize who regularly and frequently get another, different orientation tacked onto the truth, and that's why I think this distinction is important.
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Re: Gay people, RC church and wafers

#13  Postby angelo » Mar 02, 2010 10:18 am

But that does not answer the question why most priests molest little boys. Very rarely you read of a priest molesting girls. Although I have seen reports of some doing so. Is it because they have better access to boys than girls? There are very few alter girls. Most are boys.
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Re: Gay people, RC church and wafers

#14  Postby Badger » Mar 02, 2010 10:57 am

Sepermeru's comment that interdict (canon 1374, I think) is frowned upon and discouraged by the upper echelons flies in the face of the evidence. The lower "echelons" use it against individuals, the upper ones against organisations, towns, political parties, and even entire countries. I think that the frowning is not at the interdict itself, it is at the mistake of attracting negative publicity when there are no high stakes involved and nothing much to gain.
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