Going back

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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Re: Going back

#21  Postby laklak » May 19, 2018 3:10 pm

Whatever floats your boat, SP.
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Re: Going back

#22  Postby felltoearth » May 19, 2018 3:14 pm

scott1328 wrote:I guess the being on the Trump Band wagon wasn't enough for you. When shall look for the "I was once an atheist" testimonial?

Hardly surprising and I was waiting for this moment actually. Read Jordan Peterson's 2018 confession of being an atheist and the usefulness of organized religion. All the pieces will fit into place.
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Re: Going back

#23  Postby Rumraket » May 19, 2018 3:36 pm

I wonder what atheism has to do with you going back? It seems to me you could participate in all of it and sincerely enjoy it and appreciate the social goods it brings, without ever having to believe that God exists.

Want to sing and feel good about it? Do it!
Want to mingle with friends, neighbors, and participate in social gatherings and get a good sense of community? Do it!

You can do ALL of it and even respect your fellow churchgoers and the priest, love and respect your wife, and the whole community-building thing and the cooperation and counceling it all brings, without having to believe that God exists.
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Re: Going back

#24  Postby laklak » May 19, 2018 3:41 pm

It's an insidious mind virus and no mistake.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - Mark Twain
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that - Oscar Wilde
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Re: Going back

#25  Postby TopCat » May 19, 2018 3:44 pm

Rumraket wrote:You can do ALL of it ... without having to believe that God exists.

Only in the C of E.

Faking it in a church with actual believers, especially evangelical types, would be unpleasant in the extreme, and I'd contend virtually impossible unless you're a psychopath.
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Re: Going back

#26  Postby Scot Dutchy » May 19, 2018 4:27 pm

I agree and slightly hypocritical.
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Re: Going back

#27  Postby The_Metatron » May 19, 2018 5:16 pm

I predict conflict and misery. Yes, religion poisons everything.


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Re: Going back

#28  Postby aliihsanasl » May 19, 2018 5:37 pm

Church community and this connectedness to a priest and his group is a strong tie in Christianity, there is no such thing in Islam.

Only Friday prayer is something you have to be with the locals other than that you dont need to attend anything or visit mosque.
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Re: Going back

#29  Postby Thomas Eshuis » May 19, 2018 5:57 pm

aliihsanasl wrote:Church community and this connectedness to a priest and his group is a strong tie in Christianity, there is no such thing in Islam.

That's not true. Here in the Netherlands many mosques organise community events.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Going back

#30  Postby Scot Dutchy » May 19, 2018 5:59 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
aliihsanasl wrote:Church community and this connectedness to a priest and his group is a strong tie in Christianity, there is no such thing in Islam.

That's not true. Here in the Netherlands many mosques organise community events.


They have to to keep the mosque alive. How about koran schools?
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Re: Going back

#31  Postby Thomas Eshuis » May 19, 2018 6:10 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
aliihsanasl wrote:Church community and this connectedness to a priest and his group is a strong tie in Christianity, there is no such thing in Islam.

That's not true. Here in the Netherlands many mosques organise community events.


They have to to keep the mosque alive.

Irrelevant, the fact remains that Islam does offer a sense of community.
More-over, for a lot of churches it's also about surviving.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Going back

#32  Postby aliihsanasl » May 19, 2018 7:57 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
aliihsanasl wrote:Church community and this connectedness to a priest and his group is a strong tie in Christianity, there is no such thing in Islam.

That's not true. Here in the Netherlands many mosques organise community events.


Its not mainstream Islam practice, being in a Christian country they organize such things to get together.

You cant find any groups in mosques unless there is a funeral at least here in Turkey.

Just because of this emptiness AKP government supported the opening of cafes, libraries in mosques but even that didnt work, praying with mosque community has more charity in Islam but even during daily prayers mosques are empty.

Only for Friday prayer they come together which is a must.

edit just realized that; a few years ago I was watching a documentary about 9/11 one of the hijackers visiting a mosque community had confused my mind its something not that common here in Turkey few radical groups have their own mosque and community but an ordinary Muslim rarely goes to a mosque except Friday.

I reached the same conclusion while watching that doc too, being in a Christian country those people turning it into a meeting place.
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Re: Going back

#33  Postby Thomas Eshuis » May 19, 2018 8:37 pm

aliihsanasl wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
aliihsanasl wrote:Church community and this connectedness to a priest and his group is a strong tie in Christianity, there is no such thing in Islam.

That's not true. Here in the Netherlands many mosques organise community events.


Its not mainstream Islam practice,

Firstly, that's a No True Islam fallacy.
Secondly I doubt your claim that this only happens in non-Muslims majoritycountries.

aliihsanasl wrote:You cant find any groups in mosques unless there is a funeral at least here in Turkey.

And Turkey of course represents all Muslim countries around the world.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Going back

#34  Postby aliihsanasl » May 19, 2018 8:43 pm

We have members from Pakistan, they can inform us about the groups visiting frequency of mosques for daily prayers and other times.

And btw just to mention that Turkey doesnt represent whole Islamic world I said "thats the practice in Turkey".

But when I said mainstream Islam doesnt necessarily call for all prayers to mosque thats known by all Muslims.
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Re: Going back

#35  Postby Shagz » May 20, 2018 12:41 am

My impression is that Turkey is the most moderate Islamic country. Is that impression correct?

If so, don't you think that your impression of Islam will differ from someone from, say, Iran?
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Re: Going back

#36  Postby Thomas Eshuis » May 20, 2018 7:41 am

aliihsanasl wrote:We have members from Pakistan, they can inform us about the groups visiting frequency of mosques for daily prayers and other times.

And btw just to mention that Turkey doesnt represent whole Islamic world I said "thats the practice in Turkey".

But when I said mainstream Islam doesnt necessarily call for all prayers to mosque thats known by all Muslims.

But that's not what you said, or at least not what I responded to. I responded to your claim that Islam doesn't know mosque communities like Christian churches do.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Going back

#37  Postby Scot Dutchy » May 20, 2018 9:10 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
aliihsanasl wrote:Church community and this connectedness to a priest and his group is a strong tie in Christianity, there is no such thing in Islam.

That's not true. Here in the Netherlands many mosques organise community events.


They have to to keep the mosque alive.

Irrelevant, the fact remains that Islam does offer a sense of community.
More-over, for a lot of churches it's also about surviving.


What is irrelevant?
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Re: Going back

#38  Postby Fallible » May 20, 2018 9:11 am

Sorry that you think you had it rough in the first world.
You ought to get out a map sooner than later.
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Get out of your head and spend less time alone.
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Re: Going back

#39  Postby Fallible » May 20, 2018 9:12 am

Back to the OP - if it helps you chill the fuck out, I'm all for it.
Sorry that you think you had it rough in the first world.
You ought to get out a map sooner than later.
Knowledge has turned into a trap; you have to slow down.
Get out of your head and spend less time alone.
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Re: Going back

#40  Postby aliihsanasl » May 20, 2018 9:58 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
aliihsanasl wrote:We have members from Pakistan, they can inform us about the groups visiting frequency of mosques for daily prayers and other times.

And btw just to mention that Turkey doesnt represent whole Islamic world I said "thats the practice in Turkey".

But when I said mainstream Islam doesnt necessarily call for all prayers to mosque thats known by all Muslims.

But that's not what you said, or at least not what I responded to. I responded to your claim that Islam doesn't know mosque communities like Christian churches do.


I still defend that and the reason I do that I believe there are huge differences between the role of a church/priest and mosque/imam.

First of all coming to life in a Christian country/family isnt enough to be a "real" Christian am I right ? In order to be Christian on the 8th day candidate baby baptised by a priest he gets a name and a godmother/godfather for his/her Christian life. From the 8th day baby joined into a tiny community which will grow as his age grows too.

A priest have the authority of listening and forgiving the sins of a Christian in the church. So church serves as a kind of "relaxation" and easing your pains function for the Christian individual which pushes him to join the community and visit church.

If you swear to church openly this ends up with the excommunication of you from Christianity. You may ask what this has to do with participating to church ? If you dont be a good guy in the eye of your community no matter who you're they can turn against you. Just watched this movie, telling the story of a large community leader priest excommunication for rejecting the first sin. Comes Sunday I believe you will give the Salman Rushdie example but that isnt even close to excommunication imo.

There isnt such a role of neither imam nor mosque in Islam, its just between you and what you believe. You may be someone who never attended to mosque like my grandfather but when his body arrive to mosque for his funeral prayer and imam asks "how do you know him ?" everyone obliged to say three times "we know him fine" even if they never saw him.
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