Historical Jesus

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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Re: Historical Jesus

#42921  Postby dogsgod » Apr 04, 2020 10:11 pm

Surely you jest.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42922  Postby Svartalf » Apr 04, 2020 11:15 pm

I'm more serious than one could expect. Why would Tacitus be discredited as a source?
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42923  Postby proudfootz » Apr 05, 2020 12:22 am

Svartalf wrote:the Jewish traitor Flavius Josephus wrote his books to curry favor with Vespasian and Titus, I don't see whatother authors could have written that. I certainly did not notice such a qualification in Suetonius' Life of Vespasian, and Tacitus is full of later additions by bad authors.


Some seem to view Tacitus with a rather jaundiced eye.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42924  Postby dogsgod » Apr 05, 2020 6:10 am

Svartalf wrote:I'm more serious than one could expect. Why would Tacitus be discredited as a source?

If you search Tacitus you will get 2610 matches on this thread. It's been said that he's late and not sourced, could be passing on second century beliefs for all we know.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42925  Postby Svartalf » Apr 05, 2020 9:58 am

Myself too... I ought to revise my classics, I'm forgetting them.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42926  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 05, 2020 10:01 am

Svartalf wrote:Myself too... I ought to revise my classics, I'm forgetting them.


Better yet, ask yourself why you're in this topic other than to have fun with it. Who knows, though, maybe classics is fun! Not anything to be taken too seriously, though.
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42927  Postby Svartalf » Apr 05, 2020 10:30 am

well, I'm here to see if there is anything new, credible and likely to learn about the historicity or inexistence of the man named jesus.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42928  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 05, 2020 10:39 am

Svartalf wrote:well, I'm here to see if there is anything new, credible and likely to learn about the historicity or inexistence of the man named jesus.


And if, by some miracle, there were, how in the living fuck would you know, unless anything new, credible is just something you want to believe is new, credible? That's what the word credible denotes. This topic attracts those who don't state more criteria than you have done about what to find credible.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42929  Postby Cive Durdle » Apr 07, 2020 4:03 pm

Hi

I haven't been here for a while but have come across something that might help this issue

Mary Carruthers The book of memory writes that "writing on the memory" is real.

I wonder therefore is it possible to distinguish something that has been spoken by a human and recorded, and something invented?
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42930  Postby Cive Durdle » Apr 07, 2020 4:10 pm

I am proposing the equivalent of a fingerprint or DNA trace, a mindprint? Is it possible to trace the unique thoughts of a human, and if so, who? An author inventing a character or a record of a real human?
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42931  Postby kiore » Apr 07, 2020 7:53 pm


!
GENERAL MODNOTE
Clive please PM me and I will assist you to reactivate your original account, you should not create duplicate accounts.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42932  Postby dejuror » Apr 07, 2020 8:33 pm

Svartalf wrote:Isn't Tacitus close enough to count? He was not a novelist, but a real historian.


Tacitus was not a contemporary of the supposed Jesus of Nazareth. It is claimed Jesus of Nazareth died under Pilate and Tacitus was born in the time of Nero. In addition, the writings attributed to Tacitus do not mention any Jew called Jesus from Nazareth or Galilee.

It must also be noted that the passage in Tacitus Annals about Chrestianos has been found to corrupted.

The writings attributed to Tacitus cannot overturn the argument that Jesus of Nazareth with his disciples and Paul in the NT are all fiction characters.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42933  Postby dogsgod » Apr 07, 2020 9:48 pm

Theories abound. Which theory is correct, or partially correct? How will we ever know and why should we care? Maybe that's the beauty in all of this; discussion for discussion sake.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42934  Postby Cive Durdle » Apr 07, 2020 10:07 pm

[quote="kiore";p="2741964"][/quote]

PM to you is stuck in my outbox, I haven't a clue what is happening, yes please, please sort out.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42935  Postby Cive Durdle » Apr 08, 2020 9:17 am

https://www.meetup.com/The-Chicago-Phil ... 232684804/

Plato's pharmacy.

I am proposing it should be possible to differentiate a record of real conversations and something structured and authored, by teasing out the various voices and how complex they feel, how much of one voice and multiple voices, how much is a record and how much invention.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42936  Postby Cive Durdle » Apr 08, 2020 9:17 am

Wycliff wrote that God's text is a form of shorthand, never the whole truth.
Last edited by Cive Durdle on Apr 08, 2020 9:28 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42937  Postby Cive Durdle » Apr 08, 2020 9:17 am

..
Last edited by Cive Durdle on Apr 08, 2020 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42938  Postby Cive Durdle » Apr 08, 2020 9:17 am

..
Last edited by Cive Durdle on Apr 08, 2020 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42939  Postby dejuror » Apr 08, 2020 11:20 am

dogsgod wrote:Theories abound. Which theory is correct, or partially correct? How will we ever know and why should we care? Maybe that's the beauty in all of this; discussion for discussion sake.


Theories abound but there is one which is always flawed. The theory that Jesus of Nazareth was a figure of history cannot and has not been supported by any credible historical source.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42940  Postby dogsgod » Apr 08, 2020 5:45 pm

dejuror wrote:
dogsgod wrote:Theories abound. Which theory is correct, or partially correct? How will we ever know and why should we care? Maybe that's the beauty in all of this; discussion for discussion sake.


Theories abound but there is one which is always flawed. The theory that Jesus of Nazareth was a figure of history cannot and has not been supported by any credible historical source.
True, however that does not rule out that there may have been one, we just have no way of knowing with what we have to go on.
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