Historical Jesus

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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Re: Historical Jesus

#43321  Postby dogsgod » Dec 04, 2021 7:06 am

dejuror wrote:

Ehrman's argument for an HJ is probably the very worst that I have heard.


Yes, and probably as good as any.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#43322  Postby Leucius Charinus » Dec 04, 2021 1:44 pm

Ehrman's argument that mythicists are like holocaust deniers is probably the very worst that I have heard.
"It is, I think, expedient to set forth to all mankind the reasons by which I was convinced that
the fabrication of the Christians is a fiction of men composed by wickedness. "

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Re: Historical Jesus

#43323  Postby Owdhat » Dec 22, 2021 8:36 pm

I think Ehrman sounds like he's exceedingly bored with the whole argument.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#43324  Postby proudfootz » Dec 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Happy Christmas to all!
"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." - Mark Twain
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Re: Historical Jesus

#43325  Postby dogsgod » Dec 24, 2021 7:43 pm

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#43326  Postby dogsgod » Dec 28, 2021 7:53 am

Owdhat wrote:I think Ehrman sounds like he's exceedingly bored with the whole argument.
He doesn't have an argument, In Does Jesus Exist he relies on hypothetical sources. Not much of a theory.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#43327  Postby Leucius Charinus » Dec 30, 2021 12:47 am

Happy season of the solstice to one and all.
"It is, I think, expedient to set forth to all mankind the reasons by which I was convinced that
the fabrication of the Christians is a fiction of men composed by wickedness. "

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Re: Historical Jesus

#43328  Postby proudfootz » Dec 30, 2021 5:08 pm

dogsgod wrote:
Owdhat wrote:I think Ehrman sounds like he's exceedingly bored with the whole argument.
He doesn't have an argument, In Does Jesus Exist he relies on hypothetical sources. Not much of a theory.


The evidence is so secret even Ehrman isn't allowed to see it.
"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." - Mark Twain
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Re: Historical Jesus

#43329  Postby RealityRules » Dec 30, 2021 9:11 pm

The mystery of the mystery ...

A belated Merry Christmas! and wishing y'all a Happy New Year
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Re: Historical Jesus

#43330  Postby Stein » Jan 03, 2022 9:54 pm

Owdhat wrote:I think Ehrman sounds like he's exceedingly bored with the whole argument.


Are you?

I don't think Mr. Ehrman gets it that the cranks peddling mythicism are the shock troops of a culture whose cruelty will make Trump a mild blip.

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Re: Historical Jesus

#43331  Postby Hermit » Jan 03, 2022 10:02 pm

Stein wrote:I don't think Mr. Ehrman gets just why the cranks peddling mythicism are the shock troops of a culture whose cruelty will make Trump a mild blip.

Image
God is the mysterious veil under which we hide our ignorance of the cause. - Léo Errera


God created the universe
God just exists
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Re: Historical Jesus

#43332  Postby RealityRules » Jan 05, 2022 5:41 am

Stein wrote: the cranks peddling mythicism are the shock troops of a culture whose cruelty will make Trump a mild blip

    by crucifying Jesus again ?
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Re: Historical Jesus

#43333  Postby proudfootz » Jan 05, 2022 7:10 pm

RealityRules wrote:
Stein wrote: the cranks peddling mythicism are the shock troops of a culture whose cruelty will make Trump a mild blip

    by crucifying Jesus again ?


But if Jesus doesn't get crucified, His message of 'Don't be a dick' will never be heeded - like the thousands of others who peddled the same message!
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Re: Historical Jesus

#43334  Postby Owdhat » Jan 05, 2022 8:33 pm

I think he managed that bit, it was the the next bit he got stuck on. ;)
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Re: Historical Jesus

#43335  Postby Leucius Charinus » Jan 06, 2022 4:39 am

RealityRules wrote:
Stein wrote: the cranks peddling mythicism are the shock troops of a culture whose cruelty will make Trump a mild blip


    by crucifying Jesus again ?


According to one of the apocryphal acts Jesus said he was going to be crucified a second time.
Peter who had escaped his jailers in Rome met Jesus at the gates of the city.

    "When he wished to go out the city gate, however, he saw Christ coming to meet him.
    Worshipping him, he said:

    "Lord, where are you going?" (QUO VADIS)

    Christ answered him: "I am coming to Rome to be crucified again." [p. 8]

    And Peter said to him: "Lord, will you be crucified again?"
    And the Lord said to him: "Certainly, I will be crucified again."

    But Peter said: "Lord, I will return and follow you."
    And after these things were spoken, the Lord ascended into the heavens.

    --- The Acts of Pseudo-Linus
"It is, I think, expedient to set forth to all mankind the reasons by which I was convinced that
the fabrication of the Christians is a fiction of men composed by wickedness. "

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Re: Historical Jesus

#43336  Postby RealityRules » Jan 06, 2022 11:27 am

Leucius Charinus wrote:
According to one of the apocryphal acts Jesus said he was going to be crucified a second time.

    Christ answered him [Peter]: "I am coming to Rome to be crucified again."

    And Peter said to him: "Lord, will you be crucified again?"
    And the Lord said to him: "Certainly, I will be crucified again."

    But Peter said: "Lord, I will return and follow you."
    And after these things were spoken, the Lord ascended into the heavens.

    --- The Acts of Pseudo-Linus

A real man would not have avoided a second crucifixion. This proves he wasn't a real man :mrgreen:
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Re: Historical Jesus

#43337  Postby Leucius Charinus » Jan 08, 2022 4:13 am

RealityRules wrote:
Leucius Charinus wrote:
According to one of the apocryphal acts Jesus said he was going to be crucified a second time.

    Christ answered him [Peter]: "I am coming to Rome to be crucified again."

    And Peter said to him: "Lord, will you be crucified again?"
    And the Lord said to him: "Certainly, I will be crucified again."

    But Peter said: "Lord, I will return and follow you."
    And after these things were spoken, the Lord ascended into the heavens.

    --- The Acts of Pseudo-Linus


A real man would not have avoided a second crucifixion. This proves he wasn't a real man :mrgreen:


What would any normal person choose? A second crucifixion or a second ascension? "I'd be inclined to go for the ascension over the crucifixion any day. No wonder Jesus chose to ascend.

Without these very popular and very weird tales of Peter in Rome, including the miracle battles with Simon Magus in the sky above the coliseum, Pope Damasus could not have kick-started the PETER-WAS-HERE tourist business in the later 4th century. Along with the Holy Relic Trade. These were business opportunities that the Nicene church industry could not refuse to turn down.
"It is, I think, expedient to set forth to all mankind the reasons by which I was convinced that
the fabrication of the Christians is a fiction of men composed by wickedness. "

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Re: Historical Jesus

#43338  Postby proudfootz » Jan 15, 2022 2:25 pm

Meanwhile the Vridar site continues with this discussion of the fire in Rome which Nero is supposed to have blamed on christians.

So far the evidence for Nero starting the fire is pretty thin. Indeed, as Barrett points out,

the first explicit and documented claim that Nero was responsible for the fire is made no earlier than the final years of Domitian’s reign (he died in AD 96), in the line of the Silvae of Statius, quoted above, about the flames of the guilty tyrant ranging over Rome’s heights. (p. 123)

So the record shows us that

there was a common belief by the end of the first century that Nero had been responsible for the fire.

And it was after that time that the historians we rely upon for the fire — Tacitus, Suetonius, and Dio — wrote their works.


https://vridar.org/tag/barrett-rome-is-burning/
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Re: Historical Jesus

#43339  Postby dejuror » Jan 15, 2022 2:42 pm

Leucius Charinus wrote:
RealityRules wrote:
Stein wrote: the cranks peddling mythicism are the shock troops of a culture whose cruelty will make Trump a mild blip


    by crucifying Jesus again ?


According to one of the apocryphal acts Jesus said he was going to be crucified a second time.
Peter who had escaped his jailers in Rome met Jesus at the gates of the city.

    "When he wished to go out the city gate, however, he saw Christ coming to meet him.
    Worshipping him, he said:

    "Lord, where are you going?" (QUO VADIS)

    Christ answered him: "I am coming to Rome to be crucified again." [p. 8]

    And Peter said to him: "Lord, will you be crucified again?"
    And the Lord said to him: "Certainly, I will be crucified again."

    But Peter said: "Lord, I will return and follow you."
    And after these things were spoken, the Lord ascended into the heavens.

    --- The Acts of Pseudo-Linus


This Christian writing implies their Jesus was still on earth [in the city of Rome] in the time of Nero c 54-68 CE.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#43340  Postby Leucius Charinus » Jan 18, 2022 11:57 pm

dejuror wrote:
Leucius Charinus wrote:
RealityRules wrote:
Stein wrote: the cranks peddling mythicism are the shock troops of a culture whose cruelty will make Trump a mild blip


    by crucifying Jesus again ?


According to one of the apocryphal acts Jesus said he was going to be crucified a second time.
Peter who had escaped his jailers in Rome met Jesus at the gates of the city.

    "When he wished to go out the city gate, however, he saw Christ coming to meet him.
    Worshipping him, he said:

    "Lord, where are you going?" (QUO VADIS)

    Christ answered him: "I am coming to Rome to be crucified again." [p. 8]

    And Peter said to him: "Lord, will you be crucified again?"
    And the Lord said to him: "Certainly, I will be crucified again."

    But Peter said: "Lord, I will return and follow you."
    And after these things were spoken, the Lord ascended into the heavens.

    --- The Acts of Pseudo-Linus


This Christian writing implies their Jesus was still on earth [in the city of Rome] in the time of Nero c 54-68 CE.


The Monty Python movie "Life of Brian" is set in Jerusalem in the time of Jesus and is widely regarded as a satire. It was not written by Christians.

Likewise I regard this writing - Pseudo-Linus - to be a lampoon or a satire on the NT Jesus story. I do not assume it was written by the (canonical) Christians rather, in all likelihood, a pagan satirist. It was designed to make the audience laugh IMHO.
"It is, I think, expedient to set forth to all mankind the reasons by which I was convinced that
the fabrication of the Christians is a fiction of men composed by wickedness. "

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