I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#741  Postby Agrippina » Sep 21, 2010 1:06 pm

angelo wrote:Some scholars such as Burton Mack will argue that the Q document is right there in the synoptics.


I've heard that. As I've said before I read the thing the way any ordinary person would read it, but with a little knowledge of what was happening in that world, from secular history. I don't see any magical, mystical message. Just a lot of mumbo jumbo badly written text waffling on about jesus this and they other, nothing that inspired me. But then I admit, it takes a lot of inspire me, usually it involves mountains, and streams and blue skies, the ocean etc. People don't inspire me.
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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#742  Postby angelo » Sep 21, 2010 1:39 pm

So a visit to the nazi pope would for you be a waste of time? :lol:
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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#743  Postby Agrippina » Sep 21, 2010 2:07 pm

Totally. I've just changed the TV channel because it was showing a biopic about him and VAT69
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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#744  Postby angelo » Sep 22, 2010 11:46 am

??? Vat69?? What's that to do with my favourite pope? I understand he likes a nibble of holy wine, but I would have thought Chivas Regal was more his style.
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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#745  Postby Agrippina » Sep 22, 2010 1:57 pm

There used to be an old joke that VAT69 was the pope's phone number.
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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#746  Postby angelo » Sep 23, 2010 10:55 am

No, I heard it's 666-666! :lol:
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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#747  Postby redwhine » Sep 23, 2010 11:27 am

angelo wrote:No, I heard it's 666-666! :lol:

...or 616-616, perhaps.
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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#748  Postby angelo » Sep 23, 2010 12:00 pm

This is from the catholic Encyclopedia.
" In the words of the Athanasian Creed: " the father is god, the son is god, and the holy spirit is god, and yet there are not three gods but one god.
in this trinity of persons the son is begotten of the father by an eternal generation, and the holy spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the father and the son.
Yet, notwithstanding this difference as to origin, the persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent......
The vatican council has explained.....that a mystery is a truth which we are not merely incapable of discovering apart from divine revelation, but which, even when revealed, remains hidden by the veil of faith and enveloped, so to speak, by a kind of darkness." End of quote.........above is an explanation of the trinity according to Catholicism.
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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#749  Postby Agrippina » Sep 23, 2010 3:07 pm

So then when is the 3-in-one person "God" and when is he "Jesus?" And don't even try to explain the Holy Spirit to me.
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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#750  Postby angelo » Sep 24, 2010 11:33 am

Those are mysteries we are not meant to understand my child! :smile: We are not meant to know that god has a split personality. One moment we are told god is love, next we are told he will punish generations up to 7-10 times for the sins of the ancestors.
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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#751  Postby NineOneFour » Sep 24, 2010 12:30 pm

Agrippina wrote:So then when is the 3-in-one person "God" and when is he "Jesus?" And don't even try to explain the Holy Spirit to me.


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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#752  Postby Agrippina » Sep 24, 2010 1:01 pm

I've been having a discussion on Facebook with some people who vociferously refuse to deny that Allah is the God of the Bible and that the God that they worship was reinvented by the Christians. It's really difficult to make people, who've never done anything except listen to the sermon in their weekly church visit, to look objectively at the story around the sermon that the preacher gives them. This is why I would like to see a sermon, from a real believer dissected on this forum.
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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#753  Postby z8000783 » Sep 24, 2010 1:09 pm

I thought all Muslim believed that Allah was the God of the Bible, that's why the Quran and the Bible have so many similar stories.

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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#754  Postby Agrippina » Sep 24, 2010 1:15 pm

They do, it's just that the more Fundamentalist Christians, they believe that God abandoned the Jews, became one with Jesus and the Holy Spirit and that the Muslims chose some other god named Allah, as theirs. What I find so interesting is that they don't say that other people "invented" gods or copied them from the Bible, they say that other people worship "false gods" who aren't connected with theirs,thereby acknowledging that their God is not the only one.
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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#755  Postby z8000783 » Sep 24, 2010 1:22 pm

Agrippina wrote:They do, it's just that the more Fundamentalist Christians, they believe that God abandoned the Jews, became one with Jesus and the Holy Spirit and that the Muslims chose some other god named Allah, as theirs.

Interesting, that's not how Paul sees it.

By the way how good a historian was Suetonius?

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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#756  Postby Agrippina » Sep 24, 2010 1:36 pm

z8000783 wrote:
Agrippina wrote:They do, it's just that the more Fundamentalist Christians, they believe that God abandoned the Jews, became one with Jesus and the Holy Spirit and that the Muslims chose some other god named Allah, as theirs.

Interesting, that's not how Paul sees it.

By the way how good a historian was Suetonius?

John


I think of Suetonius as the 'Tabloid" historian. His history is worth a lot because any history of the Caesars is worth having to build up a collection of knowledge about them. But this history tends to look more at the salacious side of the history. He reports all the nastiness with relish, so much so that some translators in the 17th and 18th century excluded whole passages in their translations because they simply couldn't write the stories that Suetonius told.

Also he wrote the history of the Judeo-Claudians from other sources, because he lived during the time of the Flavian/Antonines, and was a bit of a boot-licker to the Caesars of his own time, so he made them look better than they were.

But, as I said, his history is interesting from the point of view that the Catholic Church didn't destroy it, which shows some broadmindedness on their part, and that it tells a side of the story that the others don't.

Read particularly his history of Tiberius and Caligula. You'll see where the story of the move Caligula comes from.
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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#757  Postby angelo » Sep 25, 2010 9:50 am

Why was the bible only available to the masses in Latin since very recent times. Think the theologians/church fathers knew that if the masses knew what it contained atheism would be even more numerous than it already is?
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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#758  Postby Scot Dutchy » Sep 25, 2010 9:56 am

Yes the famous 'mushroom syndrome'.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#759  Postby angelo » Sep 25, 2010 10:21 am

It realy should be rated x. It has incest, mass murder, cannibalism, adultery, and more in it's pages. Certainly not a book that should be left in the reach of young impressionable children.
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Re: I am ready to seriously discuss Christianity

#760  Postby Agrippina » Sep 25, 2010 10:52 am

Actually there's a very simply explanation. It was too expensive to mass produce before the invention of the printing press. It was merely a matter of people not being able to afford to pay someone to copy all that nonsense for them to read in the privacy of their homes, although wealthy families did own Bibles. Also the ordinary people couldn't read, so what was the point?
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