Jesus killed children

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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Re: Jesus killed children

#121  Postby John P. M. » Jan 08, 2012 12:33 pm

Zwaarddijk wrote:
My religious friend's religious dad actually pointed out how weird that story actually is: the only witnesses are the guys in the congregation, and they say this is what happened. They have a motive - even if the motive is nothing but the congregation suspecting the couple are withholding money, and so on. It all reads like a not even particularly elaborate attempt at dodging the obvious - they killed the couple.


Back then (it is ~2000 years ago, after all!), the distinction between what God did directly, and what God did through people's actions, was probably a bit fuzzy. Still is, among many religious people.
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Re: Jesus killed children

#122  Postby Dudely » Jan 09, 2012 6:04 pm

IgnorantiaNescia wrote:
Dudely wrote:
Mark was written by an unknown Christian (possibly in Syria), in AD 70- shortly after the destruction of the second temple. It was, in fact, written partly BECAUSE of the destruction of Jerusalem.

Interestingly, this makes it the first of the gospels. It is likely that the individuals who wrote Matthew and Luke did so after reading Mark.


The range of dates I got for it was from about 65 to 75, so that could be both before and after the destruction of the temple. Where do you get this remarkably precise date for gMark from, I you don't mind me asking?


AD 70 is the best estimate. Those who put it before 70 are in the minority. This belief often overlaps with people who believe it was actually Mark who wrote it, which is a traditionalist view not held by many scholars (There are some exceptions, notably Martin Hengel).

Further, it is widely believed that Matthew and Luke are derived form Mark, so since Luke deals with the destruction of the temple it could not have been written before it happened (even though this does cause a few problems). AD 70 is a guess partly based on the belief that you can't predict the future. It could have been written anywhere from 65-80.
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Re: Jesus killed children

#123  Postby proudfootz » Jan 10, 2012 12:47 am

Dudely wrote:
IgnorantiaNescia wrote:
Dudely wrote:
Mark was written by an unknown Christian (possibly in Syria), in AD 70- shortly after the destruction of the second temple. It was, in fact, written partly BECAUSE of the destruction of Jerusalem.

Interestingly, this makes it the first of the gospels. It is likely that the individuals who wrote Matthew and Luke did so after reading Mark.


The range of dates I got for it was from about 65 to 75, so that could be both before and after the destruction of the temple. Where do you get this remarkably precise date for gMark from, I you don't mind me asking?


AD 70 is the best estimate. Those who put it before 70 are in the minority. This belief often overlaps with people who believe it was actually Mark who wrote it, which is a traditionalist view not held by many scholars (There are some exceptions, notably Martin Hengel).

Further, it is widely believed that Matthew and Luke are derived form Mark, so since Luke deals with the destruction of the temple it could not have been written before it happened (even though this does cause a few problems). AD 70 is a guess partly based on the belief that you can't predict the future. It could have been written anywhere from 65-80.


Lately I've been wondering whether the 'Little Apocalypse' used to date gMark to post 70 AD might not be referring to the Bar Kochba Rebellion in 135 AD. It was a messianic movement that actually did persecute the christians because they had their own messiah, thank you very much.

It could be later than we think...
"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." - Mark Twain
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Re: Jesus killed children

#124  Postby Dudely » Jan 10, 2012 4:49 pm

There's too much evolution of theology in the christian writings we have that we date from 65-125. How certain ideas are presented, wording, that type of thing. They all gradually changed to reflect the new teachings of church leaders at the time. We can date manuscripts partly by following the progression of ideas through time and space.
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Re: Jesus killed children

#125  Postby paarsurrey » Jan 10, 2012 8:51 pm

Dudely wrote:There's too much evolution of theology in the christian writings we have that we date from 65-125. How certain ideas are presented, wording, that type of thing. They all gradually changed to reflect the new teachings of church leaders at the time. We can date manuscripts partly by following the progression of ideas through time and space.


Evolution is for good; but christianity or christian writings changed from good to verse; I agree with your observation though; they changed from ONE to Trinity.
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