Religious leaflet claims ungodly dressed women provoke rape

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Religious leaflet claims ungodly dressed women provoke rape

#1  Postby DoctorE » Mar 02, 2010 1:55 pm

Yea, a woman was responsible for getting us and our dicks out of fucking paradise also.. .

http://www2.tricities.com/tri/news/loca ... rap/42253/

BRISTOL, Va. – Nineteen-year-old Keshia Canter handed three burgers, fries and milkshakes to a car-load of Tuesday afternoon customers at the Hi-Lo Burger’s drive-though window. A lady sitting in the backseat leaned forward, between the two men in front, and handed her a leaflet: “Women & Girls” it said across the top.

“Even though nothing is showing, you’re being ungodly,” Canter recalled the woman telling her. “You make men want to be sinful.”

Canter was wearing boots pulled up over jeans, a pink zebra-print shirt with a black jacket zipped up over it. She has blond hair, dark eye make-up and a little red lip ring. “I just asked if she needed any salt, pepper or ketchup,” Canter said. “I mean, how do I respond to that?”

Minutes later, Canter’s mother, Pam Yates, who owns the restaurant, returned from the bank. Canter handed her “Women & Girls” and Yates started reading.

“You may have been given this leaflet because of the way you are dressed,” it begins. “Have you thought about standing before the true and living God to be judged?”

It continues with one essential theme: The sins of men are, in part, the fault of women, specifically women in tight-fitting clothing. Yates was annoyed. Then she got to a section on page two:

“Scripture tells us that when a man looks on a woman to lust for her he has already committed adultery in his heart. If you are dressed in a way that tempts a men to do this secret (or not so secret) sin, you are a participant in the sin,” the leaflet states. “By the way, some rape victims would not have been raped if they had dressed properly. So can we really say they were innocent victims?”

The hand-out is signed “anonymous.”

Yates was angry.

“What if my daughter had been a rape victim?” she said. “I hope that they never handed this to anyone, especially a young person, who’s been through that and struggles with that daily. And then they get handed something that says they are at fault. I cannot believe that a Christian, someone who walks in God’s shoes, would have made this.”

Leaflet in hand, Yates locked eyes with the old man driving the old white car, still parked in the lot, and stormed outside. The car quickly drove away.

Sandra G. Rasnake, the sexual assault program director at Bristol’s Crisis Center, had one eyebrow cocked as she read through the leaflet Thursday morning.

She cocked the other as she read aloud: “some rape victims would not have been raped if they had dressed properly.”

“Wow,” she said. “This idea that men don’t have enough self control – and evidently they shouldn’t have to – plays into all the old myths that we’ve tried for years to overcome: Rape happens to 2-year-olds and 92-year-olds, not just attractive young women. How about we hold the person doing the action accountable, whoever it is going against the will and consent of somebody else?”

Rasnake said she confronts similar ideas, although not generally printed and distributed in mass, from the women she talks with daily. Victim blaming, she said, is the most prominent reason rapes are so rarely reported and even more rarely taken to trial. Sexual assaults, she said, come in second for the country’s worst conviction rates.

Victims blaming themselves often comes from a religious place, but not always, Rasnake said. It’s become a societal defense mechanism for dealing with issues of sexual assault.

“Blaming victims is the way we who have not been victimized feel safer,” Rasnake said. “If it’s their fault then I’m safer because I wouldn’t do that. If someone steals your purse, can you imagine someone asking why you had a purse? If you are sexually assaulted, it is not because you come with breasts.”

The Rev. Bill Houck, pastor of Northstar Christian Church, shared Rasnake’s concerns about the leaflet.

“It is this type of thinking that would cause a woman not to report being raped and to somehow think it is her fault,” Houck wrote in an e-mail. “As a Christian, a father and a husband, that is a horrific statement. The rapist is wrong period.”

Houck also questioned the leaflet’s interpretation of its occasionally cited Bible passages.

“You must look at the cultural context,” he wrote. “I was surprised the article did not reference Peter 3. Many of the same ideas are put forth. Here, it gets to the crux of the issue where the Bible says that a lady’s lifestyle should be focused more on the inner person than the outward clothing. This is why, while I agree with ‘modest’ dress, there is so much more to this issue.”

Houck said his 19-year-old daughter, a student at King College, asked why the leaflet doesn’t mention how men should dress.

“If I choose to sin, that’s my choice,” Houck wrote.

Rasnake was similarly perplexed by the leaflet’s little faith in mankind.

“It’s insulting to men,” she said. “The men that I know and associate with are not so lust-driven that they cannot control their urges. By this person’s argument, everyone working at Hooters deserves to be raped.”

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#2  Postby jerome » Mar 02, 2010 5:00 pm

If that was a problem limited to religious people I would be far less worried, nay horrified. Read this shocking BBC news article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8515592.stm

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Re: Religious leaflet claims ungodly dressed women provoke r

#3  Postby mmmcheezy » Mar 02, 2010 5:03 pm

I actually was handed a tract by a customer at my retail job last week. I had just finished checking her out and she said "I'd like to share the good news!" and handed me a pamphlet. I was taken aback. Something like that has never happened to me before, and I was offended. What gave her the right? And if I can't feel like I'm not being attacked at my JOB, where can I?
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Re: Religious leaflet claims ungodly dressed women provoke r

#4  Postby statichaos » Mar 02, 2010 6:03 pm

mmmcheezy wrote:I actually was handed a tract by a customer at my retail job last week. I had just finished checking her out and she said "I'd like to share the good news!" and handed me a pamphlet. I was taken aback. Something like that has never happened to me before, and I was offended. What gave her the right? And if I can't feel like I'm not being attacked at my JOB, where can I?


With respect, you're not being attacked. You're being approached and handed a leaflet. You have the choice to turn down the leaflet, to accept it politely and toss it in the recycling unread, to read it and toss it, to collect it, to try to make a funny hat out of it, and any number of things. If she had smacked you across the face with it, then I think that you would have a case for stating that you'd been "attacked".

I liked Penn's attitude towards this sort of thing:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhG-tkQ_Q2w[/youtube]
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#5  Postby virphen » Mar 02, 2010 6:06 pm

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Re: Religious leaflet claims ungodly dressed women provoke r

#6  Postby mmmcheezy » Mar 02, 2010 9:13 pm

statichaos wrote:
mmmcheezy wrote:I actually was handed a tract by a customer at my retail job last week. I had just finished checking her out and she said "I'd like to share the good news!" and handed me a pamphlet. I was taken aback. Something like that has never happened to me before, and I was offended. What gave her the right? And if I can't feel like I'm not being attacked at my JOB, where can I?


With respect, you're not being attacked. You're being approached and handed a leaflet. You have the choice to turn down the leaflet, to accept it politely and toss it in the recycling unread, to read it and toss it, to collect it, to try to make a funny hat out of it, and any number of things. If she had smacked you across the face with it, then I think that you would have a case for stating that you'd been "attacked".

I liked Penn's attitude towards this sort of thing:

<snip youtube video>


Honestly? I'm not going to turn down anything at my job at the risk of "offending" a customer who would then turn around and report me to corporate.
And I'm pretty sure it was apparent that I wasn't implying that the customer physically attacked me with her tract. I was upset because the contents of the tract indicated that I was a bad person and I was going to hell. I don't agree with or believe the same thing, but it's still offensive when someone you don't know makes a judgment like that.
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#7  Postby Sityl » Mar 02, 2010 10:08 pm

Anyone who blames the woman for rape is a retarded chode-sucking douche bag who needs to turn on his or her brain (unless of course they are members in this forum, as that would be against tos).
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#8  Postby statichaos » Mar 02, 2010 10:13 pm

num1cubfn wrote:Anyone who blames the woman for rape is a retarded chode-sucking douche bag who needs to turn on his or her brain (unless of course they are members in this forum, as that would be against tos).


It's against TOS to turn on your brain here? But...

Oh, I see what you mean.

Anyway, I agree with the sentiment here, and I'm sorry that I didn't address it in my previous post.
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#9  Postby amyonyango » Mar 02, 2010 10:18 pm

What women do/don't wear has nothing to do with their likelihood of being raped. This is a ridiculous notion.

For religious people to a) assume that notion to be true and b) go around giving out leaflets to influence people's thoughts and behaviour in favour of this notion, is proof of their delusion and ignorance.
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#10  Postby Moonwatcher » Mar 02, 2010 10:26 pm

amyonyango wrote:What women do/don't wear has nothing to do with their likelihood of being raped. This is a ridiculous notion.

For religious people to a) assume that notion to be true and b) go around giving out leaflets to influence people's thoughts and behaviour in favour of this notion, is proof of their delusion and ignorance.


I will occasionally be handed a leaflet or find one in the restroom at work. They usually begin with, "Do you know where..." At that point, I throw them into the garbage where they belong and wish the person who left them was there so I could say, "Fear? Irrational fear of some bull religion you've been indoctrinated into since you were a child. Is that all you've got to sell this by?"
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#11  Postby jerome » Mar 02, 2010 11:04 pm

num1cubfn wrote:Anyone who blames the woman for rape is a retarded chode-sucking douche bag who needs to turn on his or her brain (unless of course they are members in this forum, as that would be against tos).



I agree, but unfortunately that seem to include the majority of UK women (see BBC News story I linked above). I am surprised no one has commented on it so far...
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#12  Postby MoonLit » Mar 02, 2010 11:44 pm

Houck said his 19-year-old daughter, a student at King College, asked why the leaflet doesn’t mention how men should dress.


No shit, I'd like to know the same. Why is that women must dress "modestly" (which is such a subjective term), but men don't?
How about men that go swimming without their shirts on? That could cause a woman to lust....

The double standard pisses me off.

But placing blame on the victim (those who were raped) by claiming that if she didn't dress so slutty, she may not have been raped, makes me want to kick a puppy.

The woman that give that leaflet should really be ashamed of herself.
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Re: Religious leaflet claims ungodly dressed women provoke r

#13  Postby NineOneFour » Mar 02, 2010 11:48 pm

DoctorE wrote:Yea, a woman was responsible for getting us and our dicks out of fucking paradise also.. .

http://www2.tricities.com/tri/news/loca ... rap/42253/

BRISTOL, Va. – Nineteen-year-old Keshia Canter handed three burgers, fries and milkshakes to a car-load of Tuesday afternoon customers at the Hi-Lo Burger’s drive-though window. A lady sitting in the backseat leaned forward, between the two men in front, and handed her a leaflet: “Women & Girls” it said across the top.

“Even though nothing is showing, you’re being ungodly,” Canter recalled the woman telling her. “You make men want to be sinful.”

Canter was wearing boots pulled up over jeans, a pink zebra-print shirt with a black jacket zipped up over it. She has blond hair, dark eye make-up and a little red lip ring. “I just asked if she needed any salt, pepper or ketchup,” Canter said. “I mean, how do I respond to that?”

Minutes later, Canter’s mother, Pam Yates, who owns the restaurant, returned from the bank. Canter handed her “Women & Girls” and Yates started reading.

“You may have been given this leaflet because of the way you are dressed,” it begins. “Have you thought about standing before the true and living God to be judged?”

It continues with one essential theme: The sins of men are, in part, the fault of women, specifically women in tight-fitting clothing. Yates was annoyed. Then she got to a section on page two:

“Scripture tells us that when a man looks on a woman to lust for her he has already committed adultery in his heart. If you are dressed in a way that tempts a men to do this secret (or not so secret) sin, you are a participant in the sin,” the leaflet states. “By the way, some rape victims would not have been raped if they had dressed properly. So can we really say they were innocent victims?”

The hand-out is signed “anonymous.”

Yates was angry.

“What if my daughter had been a rape victim?” she said. “I hope that they never handed this to anyone, especially a young person, who’s been through that and struggles with that daily. And then they get handed something that says they are at fault. I cannot believe that a Christian, someone who walks in God’s shoes, would have made this.”

Leaflet in hand, Yates locked eyes with the old man driving the old white car, still parked in the lot, and stormed outside. The car quickly drove away.

Sandra G. Rasnake, the sexual assault program director at Bristol’s Crisis Center, had one eyebrow cocked as she read through the leaflet Thursday morning.

She cocked the other as she read aloud: “some rape victims would not have been raped if they had dressed properly.”

“Wow,” she said. “This idea that men don’t have enough self control – and evidently they shouldn’t have to – plays into all the old myths that we’ve tried for years to overcome: Rape happens to 2-year-olds and 92-year-olds, not just attractive young women. How about we hold the person doing the action accountable, whoever it is going against the will and consent of somebody else?”

Rasnake said she confronts similar ideas, although not generally printed and distributed in mass, from the women she talks with daily. Victim blaming, she said, is the most prominent reason rapes are so rarely reported and even more rarely taken to trial. Sexual assaults, she said, come in second for the country’s worst conviction rates.

Victims blaming themselves often comes from a religious place, but not always, Rasnake said. It’s become a societal defense mechanism for dealing with issues of sexual assault.

“Blaming victims is the way we who have not been victimized feel safer,” Rasnake said. “If it’s their fault then I’m safer because I wouldn’t do that. If someone steals your purse, can you imagine someone asking why you had a purse? If you are sexually assaulted, it is not because you come with breasts.”

The Rev. Bill Houck, pastor of Northstar Christian Church, shared Rasnake’s concerns about the leaflet.

“It is this type of thinking that would cause a woman not to report being raped and to somehow think it is her fault,” Houck wrote in an e-mail. “As a Christian, a father and a husband, that is a horrific statement. The rapist is wrong period.”

Houck also questioned the leaflet’s interpretation of its occasionally cited Bible passages.

“You must look at the cultural context,” he wrote. “I was surprised the article did not reference Peter 3. Many of the same ideas are put forth. Here, it gets to the crux of the issue where the Bible says that a lady’s lifestyle should be focused more on the inner person than the outward clothing. This is why, while I agree with ‘modest’ dress, there is so much more to this issue.”

Houck said his 19-year-old daughter, a student at King College, asked why the leaflet doesn’t mention how men should dress.

“If I choose to sin, that’s my choice,” Houck wrote.

Rasnake was similarly perplexed by the leaflet’s little faith in mankind.

“It’s insulting to men,” she said. “The men that I know and associate with are not so lust-driven that they cannot control their urges. By this person’s argument, everyone working at Hooters deserves to be raped.”




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Re: Religious leaflet claims ungodly dressed women provoke r

#14  Postby Alan C » Mar 03, 2010 12:10 am

I can't think of anything other than;
OH FFS
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#15  Postby atrasicarius » Mar 03, 2010 12:16 am

In other news, some people are enormous assholes.
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#16  Postby JackRussell » Mar 03, 2010 9:28 pm

An interesting read on the relationship between man, religiosity and its relation to women, is a book by Ophelia Benson and Jeremy Stangroom, entitled "Does God Hate Women". It should have any decent person fuming.
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How Women Dress Provokes Rape?

#17  Postby AlohaChris » Mar 04, 2010 1:01 pm

Blame the victim: Religious leaflet claims ‘ungodly’ dressed women provoke rape
Bristol Herald Courier

By Claire Galofaro | Police Beat Reporter - Bristol Herald Courier
Published: March 1, 2010

BRISTOL, Va. – Nineteen-year-old Keshia Canter handed three burgers, fries and milkshakes to a car-load of Tuesday afternoon customers at the Hi-Lo Burger’s drive-though window. A lady sitting in the backseat leaned forward, between the two men in front, and handed her a leaflet: “Women & Girls” it said across the top.
“Even though nothing is showing, you’re being ungodly,” Canter recalled the woman telling her. “You make men want to be sinful.”
Canter was wearing boots pulled up over jeans, a pink zebra-print shirt with a black jacket zipped up over it. She has blond hair, dark eye make-up and a little red lip ring. “I just asked if she needed any salt, pepper or ketchup,” Canter said. “I mean, how do I respond to that?”
Minutes later, Canter’s mother, Pam Yates, who owns the restaurant, returned from the bank. Canter handed her “Women & Girls” and Yates started reading.
“You may have been given this leaflet because of the way you are dressed,” it begins. “Have you thought about standing before the true and living God to be judged?”
It continues with one essential theme: The sins of men are, in part, the fault of women, specifically women in tight-fitting clothing. Yates was annoyed. Then she got to a section on page two:
“Scripture tells us that when a man looks on a woman to lust for her he has already committed adultery in his heart. If you are dressed in a way that tempts a men to do this secret (or not so secret) sin, you are a participant in the sin,” the leaflet states. “By the way, some rape victims would not have been raped if they had dressed properly. So can we really say they were innocent victims?”
The hand-out is signed “anonymous.”
Yates was angry.
“What if my daughter had been a rape victim?” she said. “I hope that they never handed this to anyone, especially a young person, who’s been through that and struggles with that daily. And then they get handed something that says they are at fault. I cannot believe that a Christian, someone who walks in God’s shoes, would have made this.”
Leaflet in hand, Yates locked eyes with the old man driving the old white car, still parked in the lot, and stormed outside. The car quickly drove away.
Sandra G. Rasnake, the sexual assault program director at Bristol’s Crisis Center, had one eyebrow cocked as she read through the leaflet Thursday morning.
She cocked the other as she read aloud: “some rape victims would not have been raped if they had dressed properly.”
“Wow,” she said. “This idea that men don’t have enough self control – and evidently they shouldn’t have to – plays into all the old myths that we’ve tried for years to overcome: Rape happens to 2-year-olds and 92-year-olds, not just attractive young women. How about we hold the person doing the action accountable, whoever it is going against the will and consent of somebody else?”
Rasnake said she confronts similar ideas, although not generally printed and distributed in mass, from the women she talks with daily. Victim blaming, she said, is the most prominent reason rapes are so rarely reported and even more rarely taken to trial. Sexual assaults, she said, come in second for the country’s worst conviction rates.
Victims blaming themselves often comes from a religious place, but not always, Rasnake said. It’s become a societal defense mechanism for dealing with issues of sexual assault.
“Blaming victims is the way we who have not been victimized feel safer,” Rasnake said. “If it’s their fault then I’m safer because I wouldn’t do that. If someone steals your purse, can you imagine someone asking why you had a purse? If you are sexually assaulted, it is not because you come with breasts.”
The Rev. Bill Houck, pastor of Northstar Christian Church, shared Rasnake’s concerns about the leaflet.
“It is this type of thinking that would cause a woman not to report being raped and to somehow think it is her fault,” Houck wrote in an e-mail. “As a Christian, a father and a husband, that is a horrific statement. The rapist is wrong period.”
Houck also questioned the leaflet’s interpretation of its occasionally cited Bible passages.
“You must look at the cultural context,” he wrote. “I was surprised the article did not reference Peter 3. Many of the same ideas are put forth. Here, it gets to the crux of the issue where the Bible says that a lady’s lifestyle should be focused more on the inner person than the outward clothing. This is why, while I agree with ‘modest’ dress, there is so much more to this issue.”
Houck said his 19-year-old daughter, a student at King College, asked why the leaflet doesn’t mention how men should dress.
“If I choose to sin, that’s my choice,” Houck wrote.
Rasnake was similarly perplexed by the leaflet’s little faith in mankind.
“It’s insulting to men,” she said. “The men that I know and associate with are not so lust-driven that they cannot control their urges. By this person’s argument, everyone working at Hooters deserves to be raped.”
cgalofaro@bristolnews.com | (276) 645-2531 http://www2.tricities.com/tri/news/local/article/blame_the_victim_religious_leaflet_claims_ungodly_dressed_women_provoke_rap/42253/
Last edited by AlohaChris on Mar 04, 2010 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Women Dress Provokes Rape?

#18  Postby AlohaChris » Mar 04, 2010 1:05 pm

Every time I read this type of story I'm reminded of how important it is to oppose the Christian Supremacists here in the good old USA. I used to just laugh at their nuttery but it's lost it's humor value to me over the years.
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Re: How Women Dress Provokes Rape?

#19  Postby babel » Mar 04, 2010 1:14 pm

A similar thread came up on the old RDF and despite some disagreements on the clarity of consent and the partial responsibility of women regarding this point, not a single poster claimed that rape victims have any blame in their rape. I think this is the only logical and moral mindset one can defend.

The leaflet is also quite insulting towards men, as it seems to claim that man have only one fully functional brain aka penis and no intelligent thought is possible when it speaks up.
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Re: Religious leaflet claims ungodly dressed women provoke r

#20  Postby jerome » Mar 04, 2010 8:09 pm

I agree with all said, but did anyone actually look at my BBC link???

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