"Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

Is this the stupidest argument for God ever made?

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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"Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#1  Postby Shrunk » Nov 23, 2014 5:25 pm

One of the classical demonstrations of God’s existence is the so-called argument from desire. It can be stated in a very succinct manner as follows. Every innate or natural desire corresponds to some objective state of affairs that fulfills it. Now we all have an innate or natural desire for ultimate fulfillment, ultimate joy, which nothing in this world can possibly satisfy. Therefore there must exist objectively a supernatural condition that grounds perfect fulfillment and happiness, which people generally refer to as “God.”...

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog ... esire.aspx


And, no, he's not joking. He really thinks this is a good argument.
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#2  Postby monkeyboy » Nov 23, 2014 5:52 pm

He's clearly not heard of crack cocaine or heroin
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#3  Postby Arcanyn » Nov 23, 2014 6:42 pm

I desire a pet dragon. Where is it?
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#4  Postby Oldskeptic » Nov 23, 2014 8:11 pm

Reminds me of the story of the little boy with a shovel digging away at a giant pile of manure because with so much horseshit there has to be a pony in there somewhere.
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#5  Postby Oldskeptic » Nov 23, 2014 8:12 pm

monkeyboy wrote:He's clearly not heard of crack cocaine or heroin


Or XTC.
There is nothing so absurd that some philosopher will not say it - Cicero.

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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#6  Postby John Platko » Nov 24, 2014 12:16 am

Shrunk wrote:
One of the classical demonstrations of God’s existence is the so-called argument from desire. It can be stated in a very succinct manner as follows. Every innate or natural desire corresponds to some objective state of affairs that fulfills it. Now we all have an innate or natural desire for ultimate fulfillment, ultimate joy, which nothing in this world can possibly satisfy. Therefore there must exist objectively a supernatural condition that grounds perfect fulfillment and happiness, which people generally refer to as “God.”...

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog ... esire.aspx


And, no, he's not joking. He really thinks this is a good argument.



Hmmm. Father Barron at it again. It must be time for me to do another video on him.
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#7  Postby Shrunk » Nov 24, 2014 12:40 am

John Platko wrote:
Shrunk wrote:
One of the classical demonstrations of God’s existence is the so-called argument from desire. It can be stated in a very succinct manner as follows. Every innate or natural desire corresponds to some objective state of affairs that fulfills it. Now we all have an innate or natural desire for ultimate fulfillment, ultimate joy, which nothing in this world can possibly satisfy. Therefore there must exist objectively a supernatural condition that grounds perfect fulfillment and happiness, which people generally refer to as “God.”...

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog ... esire.aspx


And, no, he's not joking. He really thinks this is a good argument.



Hmmm. Father Barron at it again. It must be time for me to do another video on him.
:banghead:


So is he, like, famous or something? I've just been commenting on some of his posts on Catholic World Report.
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#8  Postby John Platko » Nov 24, 2014 3:39 am

Shrunk wrote:
John Platko wrote:
Shrunk wrote:
One of the classical demonstrations of God’s existence is the so-called argument from desire. It can be stated in a very succinct manner as follows. Every innate or natural desire corresponds to some objective state of affairs that fulfills it. Now we all have an innate or natural desire for ultimate fulfillment, ultimate joy, which nothing in this world can possibly satisfy. Therefore there must exist objectively a supernatural condition that grounds perfect fulfillment and happiness, which people generally refer to as “God.”...

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog ... esire.aspx


And, no, he's not joking. He really thinks this is a good argument.



Hmmm. Father Barron at it again. It must be time for me to do another video on him.
:banghead:


So is he, like, famous or something? I've just been commenting on some of his posts on Catholic World Report.


He runs a seminary and is a pretty visible catholic spokesman. St. Thomas Aquinas is his big hero so he's firmly stuck in the 13th century.
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#9  Postby chairman bill » Nov 24, 2014 10:36 am

I've added a comment, and see little reason for it to be censored away, but just in case, yer tiz

The desire for food, drink, sex, air and the like, are unconditioned responses to internal states, whereas the desire you describe for your God, is not. The former represent those things that are necessary for existence of the organism (humans) & the continuation of the species, whilst the latter is a conditioned response that requires exposure to the idea of a supernatural supreme entity. They are not the same thing.
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#10  Postby mindhack » Nov 24, 2014 10:47 am

Father wrote:...we all have an innate or natural desire for ultimate fulfillment, ultimate joy...


Caged by its inner-monkey this human has spoken.
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#11  Postby hackenslash » Nov 24, 2014 10:53 am

He wants this to be a good argument, therefore it is.

What a stupid fuck.
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#12  Postby Rumraket » Nov 24, 2014 11:08 am

Shrunk wrote:
One of the classical demonstrations of God’s existence is the so-called argument from desire. It can be stated in a very succinct manner as follows. Every innate or natural desire corresponds to some objective state of affairs that fulfills it. Now we all have an innate or natural desire for ultimate fulfillment, ultimate joy, which nothing in this world can possibly satisfy. Therefore there must exist objectively a supernatural condition that grounds perfect fulfillment and happiness, which people generally refer to as “God.”...

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog ... esire.aspx


And, no, he's not joking. He really thinks this is a good argument.

" Every innate or natural desire corresponds to some objective state of affairs that fulfills it. "

Begging the question right out the gate isn't how one "demonstrates god's existence".
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#13  Postby Matt_B » Nov 24, 2014 11:20 am

I'd like an invisible pink unicorn, thanks.

Does that mean that one of those exists too?
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#14  Postby Rumraket » Nov 24, 2014 12:26 pm

Matt_B wrote:I'd like an invisible pink unicorn, thanks.

Does that mean that one of those exists too?

How about a banana and chocolate milkshake the size of the Virgo supercluster of galaxies?

It must be out there.
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#15  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 24, 2014 1:44 pm

Shrunk wrote:
One of the classical demonstrations of God’s existence is the so-called argument from desire. It can be stated in a very succinct manner as follows. Every innate or natural desire corresponds to some objective state of affairs that fulfills it. Now we all have an innate or natural desire for ultimate fulfillment, ultimate joy, which nothing in this world can possibly satisfy. Therefore there must exist objectively a supernatural condition that grounds perfect fulfillment and happiness, which people generally refer to as “God.”...

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog ... esire.aspx


And, no, he's not joking. He really thinks this is a good argument.



Good old Pangloss to the rescue! :grin:
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#16  Postby Varangian » Nov 24, 2014 1:52 pm

Arcanyn wrote:I desire a pet dragon. Where is it?


In Carl Sagan's garage.
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#17  Postby Shrunk » Nov 24, 2014 2:19 pm

chairman bill wrote:I've added a comment, and see little reason for it to be censored away, but just in case, yer tiz


The moderation there is actually pretty fair. Almost all my comments have been posted, though sometimes it takes a while (My name there is lutesuite). It's actually been more common for Catholics responding to me to have their comments deleted (I did not see those comments before they were removed, so I don't know the reason).

The desire for food, drink, sex, air and the like, are unconditioned responses to internal states, whereas the desire you describe for your God, is not. The former represent those things that are necessary for existence of the organism (humans) & the continuation of the species, whilst the latter is a conditioned response that requires exposure to the idea of a supernatural supreme entity. They are not the same thing.


:thumbup:
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#18  Postby Shrunk » Nov 24, 2014 2:21 pm

Rumraket wrote:
Matt_B wrote:I'd like an invisible pink unicorn, thanks.

Does that mean that one of those exists too?

How about a banana and chocolate milkshake the size of the Virgo supercluster of galaxies?

It must be out there.


Since it's your birthday, you get one!

(Best wishes, BTW :cheers: )
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#19  Postby Ihavenofingerprints » Nov 24, 2014 3:16 pm

I'm still not getting why the desire for perfect fulfillment is any different from my desire to have a billion dollars.
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Re: "Revisiting the Argument from Desire"

#20  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 24, 2014 3:25 pm

chairman bill wrote:I've added a comment, and see little reason for it to be censored away, but just in case, yer tiz

The desire for food, drink, sex, air and the like, are unconditioned responses to internal states, whereas the desire you describe for your God, is not. The former represent those things that are necessary for existence of the organism (humans) & the continuation of the species, whilst the latter is a conditioned response that requires exposure to the idea of a supernatural supreme entity. They are not the same thing.


:thumbup:

It's well reasoned, but I expect you can already predict the answer - it will be something like 'yeah but no but'.
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