Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

the poor, claims US scholar

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Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#1  Postby Alan B » Oct 14, 2013 4:13 pm

Belfast Telegraph
US biblical scholar, Joseph Atwill, is set to make his first appearance in London to present a discovery that he claims proves the story of Jesus Christ was invented as a system of control to enslave the poor.

Atwill, who is the author of a book entitled 'Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus', asserts that Christianity did not begin as a religion, but was actually a sophisticated government propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire.

At the 'Covert Messiah' conference, to be held at the Conway Hall in Holborn next Saturday, Mr Atwill will present his theory that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they entirely fabricated the story of Jesus Christ.

Outlining his ideas in a blog posting on his website Mr Atwill writes: "Christianity may be considered a religion, but it was actually developed and used as a system of mind control to produce slaves that believed God decreed their slavery."

...
Mr Atwill continues: "Although Christianity can be a comfort to some, it can also be very damaging and repressive, an insidious form of mind control that has led to blind acceptance of serfdom, poverty, and war throughout history.

To this day, especially in the United States, it is used to create support for war in the Middle East."

Elsewhere, Mr Atwill also writes: “In fact he [Jesus] may be the only fictional character in literature whose entire life story can be traced to other sources. Once those sources are all laid bare, there’s simply nothing left.”

Atwill says he made his discovery when while studying the New Testament alongside the 'War of the Jews' by Josephus - the only surviving first-person historical account of first-century Judea.

Mr Atwill claims that he began to notice a sequence of parallels between the two texts.

"What seems to have eluded many scholars is that the sequence of events and locations of Jesus ministry are more or less the same as the sequence of events and locations of the military campaign of [Emperor] Titus Flavius as described by Josephus," Atwill claims.

"This is clear evidence of a deliberately constructed pattern", he continues.

"The biography of Jesus is actually constructed, tip to stern, on prior stories, but especially on the biography of a Roman Caesar."


Well, now. Seems plausible, but then one can invent any story about religion to make it sound plausible. RD thinks it might be worth a look. :ask:
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#2  Postby Goldenmane » Oct 14, 2013 5:40 pm

Atwill's been blathering this shit for years.

Even Carrier thinks it's bollocks, and that's saying something.
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#3  Postby Animavore » Oct 14, 2013 6:16 pm

I don't know why these people go to lengths to try show Jesus never existed. The guy's a failed apocalyptic preacher. The religion in his name has been debunked since the first century when the stuff he prophesied never happened. The followers have been on a continuous streak of cognitive dissonance ever since. Why can't we just leave it at that?
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#4  Postby Goldenmane » Oct 14, 2013 6:18 pm

Animavore wrote:I don't know why these people go to lengths to try show Jesus never existed. The guy's a failed apocalyptic preacher. The religion in his name has been debunked since the first century when the stuff he prophesied never happened. The followers have been on a continuous streak of cognitive dissonance ever since. Why can't we just leave it at that?


Dunno. Baffles me.

Never seen how bullshit like this is supposed to make a stronger case.
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#5  Postby SafeAsMilk » Oct 14, 2013 6:22 pm

Either way, the lesson's the same: don't base your entire worldview on dubious happenings from 2000 years ago.
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#6  Postby Animavore » Oct 14, 2013 6:25 pm

"Dubious" is being nice.
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#7  Postby chairman bill » Oct 14, 2013 7:05 pm

Saul of Tarsus, aka St Paul, was a Roman agent, and his Christianity was invented to undermine the Jews, who were a troublesome lot. Then it all got out of hand.
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#8  Postby Goldenmane » Oct 14, 2013 7:07 pm

Here we go again...
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#9  Postby jamest » Oct 14, 2013 7:45 pm

The Romans were a bit slow to implement this upon us unruly Britons, weren't they?
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#10  Postby Weaver » Oct 14, 2013 8:05 pm

Bloody Romans - what did they ever do for us anyway?
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#11  Postby jamest » Oct 14, 2013 8:18 pm

Weaver wrote:Bloody Romans - what did they ever do for us anyway?

Republicans?
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#12  Postby proudfootz » Oct 15, 2013 2:32 am

Animavore wrote:I don't know why these people go to lengths to try show Jesus never existed. The guy's a failed apocalyptic preacher. The religion in his name has been debunked since the first century when the stuff he prophesied never happened. The followers have been on a continuous streak of cognitive dissonance ever since. Why can't we just leave it at that?


The 'failed preacher' theory is just one theory among many.

Other folks are interested in dinosaurs.

Likewise: who cares? They're all dead long ago.

Some folks have an interest in history. Why not leave it at that?
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#13  Postby Animavore » Oct 15, 2013 7:18 am

proudfootz wrote:
The 'failed preacher' theory is just one theory among many.


Actually he's a failed preacher whether he existed or not. That's all we need to know. I couldn't really care if he existed or not.
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#14  Postby Cito di Pense » Oct 15, 2013 8:08 am

Animavore wrote:
proudfootz wrote:
The 'failed preacher' theory is just one theory among many.


Actually he's a failed preacher whether he existed or not. That's all we need to know. I couldn't really care if he existed or not.


Oh, not just existing, per se, but existing historically. Perhaps historians think of these as the same thing. What a coup if some historian can make the case either way. It's about sensationalising the profession of history. The more history tries to sensationalise itself, the more it looks a circus.

I'm not ignoring the fact that lapsed Christians might find it important to find the object of their former veneration to have existed or existed historically. You are a fine example of how indifferent to the outcome of that question it is possible to be. That it is the wrong question may be beside the point.
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#15  Postby willhud9 » Oct 15, 2013 11:24 pm

When even the likes of Fitzgerald and Carrier dismiss Atwill's material as ludicrous, there is a fair chance that Atwill's claims are rather...ludicrous.
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#16  Postby Byron » Oct 17, 2013 8:02 pm

willhud9 wrote:When even the likes of Fitzgerald and Carrier dismiss Atwill's material as ludicrous, there is a fair chance that Atwill's claims are rather...ludicrous.

Frickin-A. :coffee:

If Jesus of Nazareth had been invented, it'd be a fascinating tale to tell. If people want to tell it, and have it taken seriously, they need to make their case via academic research. Carrier has, to his credit, begun to do this piecemeal, by questioning the authenticity of some of the sources. Time will tell if he gets anywhere.

If a variant on the Jesus myth is ever to be gain traction within the academy, it'll be by this methodical slog through the evidence, not an "all is revealed!" thunderclap.
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#17  Postby Calilasseia » Oct 18, 2013 12:09 am

Unless of course someone digs up some Roman writings, circa 100 BCE, containing words to the effect "can we control these unruly subjects by manipulating their religion?"

Though the Romans could be fairly devious at statecraft, it's a bit of a stretch to imagine them being this devious.
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#18  Postby Byron » Oct 18, 2013 11:32 pm

One, two, three ...

"It's a FAAAKE!"

:D
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#19  Postby Calilasseia » Oct 18, 2013 11:42 pm

Well of course myths don't arise in a vacuum. As a consequence, I'm perfectly happy to operate on the basis that a real individual existed upon which the Jesus story was based, especially if there exists scholarly work pointing to appropriate evidence on this matter. Not that this would in any way validate the assorted weird and wonderful supernaturalist assertions about the individual in question, which require a separate body of proper evidence to support, and for which none has been forthcoming. As to how this myth arose, well, I think we'd need something a little more convincing than yet another story to place the details on a firm foundation.
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Re: Story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave

#20  Postby Byron » Oct 18, 2013 11:51 pm

Calilasseia wrote:Well of course myths don't arise in a vacuum. As a consequence, I'm perfectly happy to operate on the basis that a real individual existed upon which the Jesus story was based, especially if there exists scholarly work pointing to appropriate evidence on this matter. Not that this would in any way validate the assorted weird and wonderful supernaturalist assertions about the individual in question, which require a separate body of proper evidence to support, and for which none has been forthcoming. As to how this myth arose, well, I think we'd need something a little more convincing than yet another story to place the details on a firm foundation.

Yup, my position.

I believe Jesus was a historical figure because every early source -- friend, foe, and indifferent -- refers to him as such, in a specific time and place, within living memory. The idea that he never existed doesn't seem to have occurred to anyone until the 18th century. I'm willing to accept that it could be right, but it's got a lot of work to do, and so far, it isn't doing it, instead resorting to junk scholarship and Dan Brown "revelations." A History Channel special is doubtless in the works.

Many of its supporters seem either unable to decouple Jesus of Nazareth from Christ, or else, think that doing so gives too much ground to Christianity. Well, maybe it does (I personally think that Jesus being a failed doomsday preacher is at least as damaging to orthodox Christianity as the Jesus Myth), but it doesn't matter; we follow the evidence where it leads.
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