The Morality of the Christian God

Exploring morality in scripture and Christian history

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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Re: The Morality of the Christian God

#301  Postby archibald » Aug 31, 2013 1:20 am

"It seems rather obvious that plants have free will. Don't know why that would be controversial."
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Re: The Morality of the Christian God

#302  Postby monkeyboy » Aug 31, 2013 7:03 am

romansh wrote:
monkeyboy wrote:Back to free will and the morlity of God if I may.

I have another problem with the original sin/Adam and Eve story, whether it is meant to be literal or allegorical I don't care. I certainly don't see it as morally acceptible.

Funnily enough if we read about why Adam and Eve got thrown out the GoE, is because of two things
    1) They disobeyed god in tasting the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge
    2) And they learned to think in terms of good and evil.

Just perhaps the original intent of the passage was for people not to think in these terms ... and to get back into the GoE (metaphorically speaking) we should stop thinking in terms of good and evil. This interpretation has a deep irony if we compare this to how people interpret original sin today.


That might sound like a nice idea but perhaps it's just a teensie, weenie bit late for that now. Also the authors of the other books of the babble clearly didn't think that or that troublesome chippie from Judea.
The Bible is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
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Re: The Morality of the Christian God

#303  Postby Arnold Layne » Aug 31, 2013 8:40 am

archibald wrote:Did you ever consider doing that 'Dice game' thing (as per the book), where you write down, say, 6 things that you intuitively want to do, roll a dice and then just do the appropriate one, regardless of the consequences? This seems at least a bit like 'not assessing good or bad', to an extent, since the final decision is taken by the dice. Then you do another list.....

Ah, The Dice Man. One of my favourite books! Luke Rheinhard, if my memory serves.

I tried it once. One of my options was to stop using dice and never try it again. Guess what happened! :grin:
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Re: The Morality of the Christian God

#304  Postby Greyman » Aug 31, 2013 9:18 am

THWOTH wrote:What I find objectionable about the Eden myth is that God required his creations to remain ignorant and punished them for expanding their horizons.
Because, as explicitly quoted by God in Genesis, he was afraid that they would gain eternal life and "become as one of us".

That had to be prevented. See also the Tower of Babel. (Gen 11)
Last edited by Greyman on Aug 31, 2013 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Morality of the Christian God

#305  Postby Cito di Pense » Aug 31, 2013 9:25 am

Greyman wrote:
THWOTH wrote:What I find objectionable about the Eden myth is that God required his creations to remain ignorant and punished them for expanding their horizons.
Because, as explicitly quoted by God in Genesis, he was afraid that they would gain eternal life and "become as one of us".

That had to be prevented. See also the Tower of Babel.


Thanks for clearing that up for me, Greyman. I'd been wondering about that one for a long time. I mean, if one God is a good thing, how can just two or three Gods be too much of a good thing?
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: The Morality of the Christian God

#306  Postby archibald » Aug 31, 2013 10:54 am

Arnold Layne wrote:
archibald wrote:Did you ever consider doing that 'Dice game' thing (as per the book), where you write down, say, 6 things that you intuitively want to do, roll a dice and then just do the appropriate one, regardless of the consequences? This seems at least a bit like 'not assessing good or bad', to an extent, since the final decision is taken by the dice. Then you do another list.....

Ah, The Dice Man. One of my favourite books! Luke Rheinhard, if my memory serves.

I tried it once. One of my options was to stop using dice and never try it again. Guess what happened! :grin:


And that was probably a good choice, to put it as an option. :)

Personally, I've not read the book, and probably don't have the.......courage?.....to experiment with it. Most of my 6 options would have to do with approaching attractive women, and I'm married with kids. Lol.
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Re: The Morality of the Christian God

#307  Postby THWOTH » Aug 31, 2013 11:51 am

Cito di Pense wrote:
Greyman wrote:
THWOTH wrote:What I find objectionable about the Eden myth is that God required his creations to remain ignorant and punished them for expanding their horizons.

Because, as explicitly quoted by God in Genesis, he was afraid that they would gain eternal life and "become as one of us".

That had to be prevented. See also the Tower of Babel.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Greyman. I'd been wondering about that one for a long time. I mean, if one God is a good thing, how can just two or three Gods be too much of a good thing?

I guess that makes Hinduism best of the best.
"No-one is exempt from speaking nonsense – the only misfortune is to do it solemnly."
Michel de Montaigne, Essais, 1580
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Re: The Morality of the Christian God

#308  Postby Arnold Layne » Aug 31, 2013 12:15 pm

archibald wrote:
Arnold Layne wrote:
archibald wrote:Did you ever consider doing that 'Dice game' thing (as per the book), where you write down, say, 6 things that you intuitively want to do, roll a dice and then just do the appropriate one, regardless of the consequences? This seems at least a bit like 'not assessing good or bad', to an extent, since the final decision is taken by the dice. Then you do another list.....

Ah, The Dice Man. One of my favourite books! Luke Rheinhard, if my memory serves.

I tried it once. One of my options was to stop using dice and never try it again. Guess what happened! :grin:


And that was probably a good choice, to put it as an option. :)

Personally, I've not read the book, and probably don't have the.......courage?.....to experiment with it. Most of my 6 options would have to do with approaching attractive women, and I'm married with kids. Lol.

Suggestion.....read the book, it's brilliant.....don't try the dice!! :grin:
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Re: The Morality of the Christian God

#309  Postby Ian Tattum » Aug 31, 2013 2:13 pm

THWOTH wrote:What I find objectionable about the Eden myth is that God required his creations to remain ignorant and punished them for expanding their horizons.

As that story appears in the oldest literary strand of Genesis it looks more likely to be a contradiction of the view of some neighbouring culture that eternal life is achievable for human beings. The passage also has humans made from mere dust!
That humans are not to mistakenly think they can achieve the status of gods is a notion to be found throughout the Mediterranean region and crops up in Sophocles' Oedipus Rex.
Of course that might seem to pose another set of problems for a religion that has eternal life as a central element :)
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Re: The Morality of the Christian God

#310  Postby Ian Tattum » Aug 31, 2013 2:19 pm

archibald wrote:
Ian Tattum wrote:
Most of the positions taken here we have heard many times before and some are powerful and compelling while others are too lame to get off the ground...


Well, I wouldn't have put it quite like that, but assuming you are referring to atheist and theist positions respectively, I applaud your generosity and clear-mindedness. :)


Ian Tattum wrote:The old historical Jesus thread was all of those!


You can't make me go back there. You can't. noooooooooooooo. :whine:

That is the acceptable sort of Hell, one which only admits volunteers! :)
As for the other point, agreed!
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Re: The Morality of the Christian God

#311  Postby archibald » Aug 31, 2013 4:09 pm

Arnold Layne wrote:
Suggestion.....read the book, it's brilliant.....don't try the dice!! :grin:


You know what, I think I will. have just ordered book, but no dice. :)
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Re: The Morality of the Christian God

#312  Postby archibald » Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm

Ian Tattum wrote:
That is the acceptable sort of Hell, one which only admits volunteers! :)


Voluntary hell. Now that's an unexplored topic, as far as I am aware. The ultimate in S & M, perhaps. :) :)

I've decided he probably did exist. 65% or thereabouts, imo. Currently awaiting new data, of which there appears to be none, not least at that thread, if combining 'least' and 'none' is not nonsensical, which is probably is.
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Re: The Morality of the Christian God

#313  Postby THWOTH » Sep 01, 2013 12:20 am

archibald wrote:
Arnold Layne wrote:
Suggestion.....read the book, it's brilliant.....don't try the dice!! :grin:

You know what, I think I will. have just ordered book, but no dice. :)

The paradox of the dice game is that you still have to choose your options.
"No-one is exempt from speaking nonsense – the only misfortune is to do it solemnly."
Michel de Montaigne, Essais, 1580
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