Just wanted to add, today I did a bit of goggling about this.
Didn't really find much except for the Bible verses, and some claims as to which volcano in Saudi Arabia is the real Mount Sinai.
One interesting fact I found was about the name Yahweh.
It was on Wikipedia, something about how in Arabic it would mean "he who causes to fall" leading to an interpretation of Yahweh as a storm god.
Could it be interpreted as a volcano god?
He who causes to fall, as in with the ground shaking from eruptions?
What say ye?

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It could, but it wouldn't make much sense.

stijndeloose wrote:It could, but it wouldn't make much sense.

Lol, Ok.
Maybe I'm trying to hard here, huh?
Guess I'll just have to leave this one hanging in the air.

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Mark

Well done on being one of the first people in the world to work out the glaringly obvious, which has been hidden behind the biggest blind spot the world has ever known.

I've spent the last few years researching the subject and trying to raise awareness and discussion. It's not easy as most people believe they already know it all and do not want to change their minds.

You can see my findings here...

http://ohmyvolcano.blogspot.com

Please ask me specific questions if there is anything you would like to know.

The Fog Horn wrote:Mark

Well done on being one of the first people in the world to work out the glaringly obvious, which has been hidden behind the biggest blind spot the world has ever known.

I've spent the last few years researching the subject and trying to raise awareness and discussion. It's not easy as most people believe they already know it all and do not want to change their minds.

You can see my findings here...

http://ohmyvolcano.blogspot.com

Please ask me specific questions if there is anything you would like to know.

Thanks, I'll try to read through your site once I have some spare time.
But yeah, I don't think there will be any convincing evidence to prove this, unless we find some inscription near a volcano or something.
To me the verses do seem to be a spot on description.
But I think it would take more evidence to close the case.

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There is a lot to the theory....lots of little clues that add up to an undeniable case. I am sure there are many more clues to discover. I've just scratched the surface.

There are four people I know who are pushing this theory.......five now including you.

Please send me an email to ohmyvolcano@hushmail.com and I'll keep you posted on ideas.

From my reading of the Pentateuch, Yahweh appears to be a middle-aged male Jew with significant anger management issues.

Blackadder wrote:From my reading of the Pentateuch, Yahweh appears to be a middle-aged male Jew with significant anger management issues.

Right, I agree with you.
But I don't mean the Pentateuch as a whole.
Rather that some of the verses seem to suggest that Yahweh started out as a volcano god.

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He did seem to blow his top regularly.

james1v wrote:He did seem to blow his top regularly.

Lol.
C'mon, did you guys at least read the link in my first post?
I mean, if those verses don't describe a volcano, what does?

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Nahum 1:5-6 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein. Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Given at that time most people in the world either worshipped imaginery volcano gods or knew of clans that did, what is the likely type of god described in the above verse? My point is....keep it real. Let's not replace one illogical fantasy, that of god belief, with another fantasy, such as the idea god was a nuclear explosion, an alien landing on Mount Sinai or anything else that keeps the person sucking on the Kool-aid.

155 posts here.....from the volcano god theory, to the idea the Leviathan in the Bible was nothing other than a submarine volcano, to 'holy smoke' being holy due to rising from a holy volcano, to the ark of the covenant being in the Kaaba, to Jerusalem being in Mecca, to Mount Sinai being in Saudi, to the pyramids around the world representing volcanoes.

http://ohmyvolcano.blogspot.com

Little late commenting, but I figured I would address this subject.

mindhack wrote:Maybe the Minoan eruption served as inspiration?

This is the most likely it.. This is the Eruption that triggered the collapse of the bronze age, caused the turmoil in Egypt, and resulted in the eviction of the Hyksos.. This Eruption would have been visible to the entire Levant region and as far East as Israel.. It is understood that the Hyksos likely made up some of the pre-Israelites when they were evicted to back to the tribal regions in Canaan. The Egyptians recorded it as a military victory while the Hyksos recorded it as having been led to the promise land.

such as the idea god was a nuclear explosion, an alien landing on Mount Sinai or anything else that keeps the person sucking on the Kool-aid.

None of these would fit the Narrative. The Narrative is most likely that of a volcano, especially when you dig deeper into the bible and reference other descriptions such as the one you can find in Daniel 7, or in Revelations to which clearly depict an active volcano.

Now I recall someone suggesting that Yahweh was a storm god, but there is a problem with it, and that problem is that in order to maintain that concept, one would have to ignore the volcanic imagery tied to storm imagery... Hence volcanoes exhibit this characteristic and cause such storms. I find it poor academics to outright ignore the other half of the description.. Mountain gods are often associated with storms because they are often considered to control the weather.. They are also often fertility gods as well.

However, if any of you really want to dig into how much evidence there is for Yahweh being a Volcano God, I wrote 3 articles on the subject to which really goes over far more content then simply referencing Psalms, or Exodus. The Articles are a 3 part series in the following order:

Yahweh: The Worshiping Of A Volcano Fire God Of War?

Mountain GOD Worship: Yahweh, God of the Mountains.

YAHWEH: THE ROCK OF ISRAEL

This articles are not short, and they are a work in progress... Hope you enjoy.

Cheers!

I think you're looking at sources that are too recent.

The idea of a volcano god could date further back than the Hebrews in Canaan. It could go further back to when humans first settled there and possibly worshipped what is now an extinct volcano. Possibly look further back into prehistory-prehistory.

I don't have time to look through my books now, but that is where I suggest you look: that there might have been some extremely ancient worship of a now-extinct volcano. Mount Sinai, I think someone mentioned is now extinct. How far back does that extinction go?

I think you're looking at sources that are too recent.

Actually my resources range.. They aren't all recent, but the updated and recent resources are based on up to date information and evidence to which is consistent with the narrative of the bible, the archaeological evidence, and the various other numerously noted resources. When you look at all the evidence in a single big picture, it makes sense, and reading the bible actually starts making coherent sense. Is it 100 percent proof? Probably not, but there is quite a bit of hard evidence... The Thera Eruption seems to have on it's own shaped the course of history and brought forth Monotheism.. Also Thera has had eruptions prior to the one in which destroyed the Minoan Civilizations. And is likely the source of many of the Tsunamis recorded in the Mediterranean. And it's hard to go back to pre-history because there is no written language.. Religion then gets more and more animistic than Anthropomorphic.

But I don't think religion or gods began with volcanoes.. Yahweh seems to be the merger of Mountain and Moon God worship as noted in the citations to where he becomes a Moon Mountain god.. "He who dwells on his shining mountain" - El Shaddai . And if Mt Sinai is indeed Thera (mostly likely is), it's not extinct.. It's not even dormant, it's quiescent at the present time as the current active crater vents off steam and sulphur dioxide.

TheJackel wrote:

I think you're looking at sources that are too recent.

Actually my resources range.. They aren't all recent, but the updated and recent resources are based on up to date information and evidence to which is consistent with the narrative of the bible, the archaeological evidence, and the various other numerously noted resources. When you look at all the evidence in a single big picture, it makes sense, and reading the bible actually starts making coherent sense. Is it 100 percent proof? Probably not, but there is quite a bit of hard evidence... The Thera Eruption seems to have on it's own shaped the course of history and brought forth Monotheism..

What do you mean that it "brought forth monotheism?"

Also Thera has had eruptions prior to the one in which destroyed the Minoan Civilizations. And is likely the source of many of the Tsunamis recorded in the Mediterranean. And it's hard to go back to pre-history because there is no written language.. Religion then gets more and more animistic than Anthropomorphic.

It's not hard, archeology is fairly successful at achieving this.

But I don't think religion or gods began with volcanoes.. Yahweh seems to be the merger of Mountain and Moon God worship as noted in the citations to where he becomes a Moon Mountain god.. "He who dwells on his shining mountain" - El Shaddai . And if Mt Sinai is indeed Thera (mostly likely is), it's not extinct.. It's not even dormant, it's quiescent at the present time as the current active crater vents off steam and sulphur dioxide.

How do you equate the volcano on Santorini with Mount Sinai?

In "The Bible Unearthed" page 326-328, the authors say the following about it:

...there seems to be no special difficulty in identifying the most important places mentioned in biblical stories...Mount Sinai and other biblical places have been readily identified and visited since medieval times and even earlier, in the Byzantine period...In the heart of the mountainous region of southern Sinai,...stands the Saint Catherine Monastery. Built in the sixth century CE by the Byzantine emperor Justinian to memorialize the supposed site of the burning bush...the monastery acquired its present name in Medieval times... the combination of aw-inspiring scenery and relatively friendly environmental conditions encouraged pilgrimage and continuous veneration of sites in this part of the Sinai Peninsula. The power of the bible story of Mount Sinai has always encouraged attempts to identify particular localities. Yet these remain in the realm of folklore and geographical speculation - not archeology.

Now, considering that the people who invented the stories and that the stories were written down in the first millennium BCE during the Babylonian exile, you have to put the stories in perspective.

1) Most of the stories are reworkings of stories that already existed in the region.
2) The people who told the stories by word of mouth were not sophisticated travellers who knew about world geography and history, they would not have known much more than that the Egyptians lived under some people who came from the sea, known to the Egyptians as the Sea People. There are no historical records, or archeological ones, that verify that these people came as exiles from the eruption of Thera and the resulting tsunami. The actual existence of Thera would have been relatively unknown to people who barely knew that there was anything beyond the shore on the east, except that marauders came from the west, some time 500+ years before the OT was assembled.

From the same source as above page 87:

...The Ugaritic and Egyptian records of the early twelfth century BCE mention these marauders. A text found in the rhine of the port city of Ugarit provides dramatic testimony for the situation around 1185 BCE...it frantically describes how "enemy boats have arrived, the enemy has set fire to the cities and wrought havoc."

I doubt that the Hebrews would have assigned the holiest of their sites to the place where these people might have come from.

3) Until the return to Jerusalem, and the actual ritualisation of modern forms of Judaism, the Hebrews were not monotheistic.

Again from that source on page 247:

...after the fall of Samaria, with the increasing centralisation of the kingdom of Judah, an new, more focused attitude toward religious law and practice began to catch hold...These dramatic changes in religious leadership have prompted biblical scholars such as Baruch Halpern to suggest that in a period of no more than a few decades in the late eighth and early seventh century BCE, the monotheistic tradition of Judeo-Christian civilization was born.

However, we have the evidence of the Bible itself, and the laws that were formulated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloch

Wikipedia on Moloch (the god of child sacrifice:

Leviticus 18:21: "And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Moloch"). In the Old Testament, Gehenna was a valley by Jerusalem, where apostate Israelites and followers of various Baalim and Caananite gods, including Moloch, sacrificed their children by fire (2 Chr. 28:3, 33:6; Jer. 7:31, 19:2–6).

We know that these laws were being formulated during the seventh century BCE, as shown by Finkelstein and Silberman, and we also know from other sources that the Babylonian empire was the metaphorical basis of the Exodus, and that the Torah's assembly and writing was still ongoing during the Babylonian era simply because of the lives of the Prophets some of whom only lived at that time. Thus the practice of child sacrifice and the worship of other gods, was obviously still happening when the Torah was being assembled.

Read the book suggested above. It's a good place to start for biblical archaeology.

Bastards! Got me a sweat-up studyin' hard at Geology 100, and now yous tell me all I needed was theology? Sheesh!

What do you mean that it "brought forth monotheism?"

Yahwism is Monotheism is it not? And Exodus does state it was Yahweh in which caused the turmoil in Egypt , and well, That was the Thera Eruption that caused that.. Shortly after that Eruption do we find Yahwism rise to become a monotheistic cult even though it wasn't until after 650 BC where it really established itself..

How do you equate the volcano on Santorini with Mount Sinai?

Read my article as I go over this subject pretty well.. Exodus is the likely telling of the Thera eruption and the turmoil in which follows. You can also read the academic citations I had noted. Furthermore, when you cite me a source that literally ignores the volcanic evidence, or imagery and narrative in the bible, I can't take that source seriously. Especially one that ignores a vast amount of academic sources that demonstrate the latter of what they are trying to present. No offense, but I consider that book almost as bad as the History Channel's Documentary on Ancient Aliens..

In "The Bible Unearthed" page 326-328, the authors say the following about it:

This is actually a poor documentary/book, and it's wrong about the archaeological evidence because the archaeological evidence points to Thera as Thera is the only possible source to the story to which includes the Hyksos as the only possible people in question in the Narrative to have been evicted from Egypt around 1560 BC shortly after the eruption of Thera. My article cites the evidence and academic sources.

1) Most of the stories are reworkings of stories that already existed in the region.
2) The people who told the stories by word of mouth were not sophisticated travellers who knew about world geography and history, they would not have known much more than that the Egyptians lived under some people who came from the sea, known to the Egyptians as the Sea People. There are no historical records, or archeological ones, that verify that these people came as exiles from the eruption of Thera and the resulting tsunami. The actual existence of Thera would have been relatively unknown to people who barely knew that there was anything beyond the shore on the east, except that marauders came from the west, some time 500+ years before the OT was assembled.

The OT was a mix of many pagan oral traditions and mythology. And you're wrong about Thera being unknown.. Egyptians traded with the Minoans and the Thera Eruption would have been visible to the entire Levant region. Especially from the Nile Delta from which the Journey of Exodus begins. And the Egyptians were not ruled by Minoans, they were Under the rule of the Hyksos by whom were of Asiatic or Canaan/Syrian in origin.. This isn't to say Egypt hadn't seen immigration from the Minoans evacuating the Island as I am sure many places including Babylon might have as they all had trade with the Minoans..

I doubt that the Hebrews would have assigned the holiest of their sites to the place where these people might have come from.

How are the Minoans Enemies when they had close trading ties with Egypt and Babylon? And worse yet this is a fleeting argument because during a super volcanic Eruption I don't think people are considering where it came from in relation to whom ever had lived there. And lets not forget, the Hebrews likely contributed all volcanic activity and mountains to that of Yahweh. Mt Sinai is most likely that of Thera and a place card for others in the region.

We know that these laws were being formulated during the seventh century BCE, as shown by Finkelstein and Silberman, and we also know from other sources that the Babylonian empire was the metaphorical basis of the Exodus,

Exodus is a fictional tale in it's writing, but it's referencing a real event. It was not written in the context of being metaphorical. Especially when the volcanic imagery is throughout the entire bible as a very consistent theme. Babylon was not the Basis to the story of Exodus, but it had its role.. Babylon was also the main trading partner with the Hyksos, also relied heavily on the trade with the Minoans, and when the Thera eruption happened to which was a civilization ending event, it led to their downfall and eviction.. The book you suggest is not consistent with what's actually written in the bible, or the Evidence that shows Thera having a huge impact on the region to where volcanic rock from that Eruption was found as far as the Black Sea. It is the only Event in which can match the Narrative. Especially the descriptions given..

There are no historical records, or archeological ones, that verify that these people came as exiles from the eruption of Thera and the resulting tsunami.

This is incorrect. The exiles were most likely the Hyksos, not people from the sea. Again please read the academic citations I noted..

TheJackel wrote:

What do you mean that it "brought forth monotheism?"

Yahwism is Monotheism is it not?

Where did the idea of worshipping JHWH come from? It didn't originate as a monotheistic religion. I already pointed that out. The Hebrews were recognising and worshipping other gods at the same they were worshipping JHWH.

And Exodus does state it was Yahweh in which caused the turmoil in Egypt , and well, That was the Thera Eruption that caused that..

As there is no evidence for the Exodus, and that the story is mere mythology, and that there is no evidence that the Thera Eruption caused the exodus, that's merely repeating mythology. When the story was written, the Hebrews were becoming monotheistic, so it's a matter of the event being written at a time when their belief had changed.

Shortly after that Eruption do we find Yahwism rise to become a monotheistic cult even though it wasn't until after 650 BC where it really established itself..

Nope, it didn't become a single religion at the time of the Thera eruption.

How do you equate the volcano on Santorini with Mount Sinai?

Read my article as I go over this subject pretty well.. Exodus is the likely telling of the Thera eruption and the turmoil in which follows.

You're saying that doesn't make it so. Exodus is merely a metaphorical recounting of the Babylon exile, to create a history they didn't have written down. They didn't know how they got to where they were living, so they made it up. Read the book I recommended.

You can also read the academic citations I had noted. Furthermore, when you cite me a source that literally ignores the volcanic evidence, or imagery and narrative in the bible, I can't take that source seriously. Especially one that ignores a vast amount of academic sources that demonstrate the latter of what they are trying to present. No offense, but I consider that book almost as bad as the History Channel's Documentary on Ancient Aliens..

Seeing the book is based on actual archeological evidence, I hardly think that it's "ancient aliens."

In "The Bible Unearthed" page 326-328, the authors say the following about it:

This is actually a poor documentary/book, and it's wrong about the archaeological evidence because the archaeological evidence points to Thera as Thera is the only possible source to the story to which includes the Hyksos as the only possible people in question in the Narrative to have been evicted from Egypt around 1560 BC shortly after the eruption of Thera. My article cites the evidence and academic sources.

That's your opinion.

1) Most of the stories are reworkings of stories that already existed in the region.
2) The people who told the stories by word of mouth were not sophisticated travellers who knew about world geography and history, they would not have known much more than that the Egyptians lived under some people who came from the sea, known to the Egyptians as the Sea People. There are no historical records, or archeological ones, that verify that these people came as exiles from the eruption of Thera and the resulting tsunami. The actual existence of Thera would have been relatively unknown to people who barely knew that there was anything beyond the shore on the east, except that marauders came from the west, some time 500+ years before the OT was assembled.

The OT was a mix of many pagan oral traditions and mythology. And you're wrong about Thera being unknown..

I didn't say it was completely unknown. If you look at the quote from the Ugaritic records, they were pretty well aware of the invasion of marauders. It's the silly notion that an earthquake on Santorini created monotheism.

Egyptians traded with the Minoans and the Thera Eruption would have been visible to the entire Levant region. Especially from the Nile Delta from which the Journey of Exodus begins. And the Egyptians were not ruled by Minoans, they were Under the rule of the Hyksos by whom were of Asiatic or Canaan/Syrian in origin.. This isn't to say Egypt hadn't seen immigration from the Minoans evacuating the Island as I am sure many places including Babylon might have as they all had trade with the Minoans..

I doubt that the Hebrews would have assigned the holiest of their sites to the place where these people might have come from.

So the people standing on the banks of the Nile were able to see the island north of Crete. Wow. Take a look at the map and the distance. Perhaps they experienced high tides, but I hardly think that they were able to see the volcano erupting.

How are the Minoans Enemies when they had close trading ties with Egypt and Babylon? And worse yet this is a fleeting argument because during a super volcanic Eruption I don't think people are considering where it came from in relation to whom ever had lived there. And lets not forget, the Hebrews likely contributed all volcanic activity and mountains to that of Yahweh. Mt Sinai is most likely that of Thera and a place card for others in the region.

What does Crete have to do with the eruption except that their civilisation was destroyed by it. The people who invaded Ugarit weren't Minoans, they were possibly the same people that the Greeks called the "Dorians." Although the Dorian Invasion is disputed today because definite records can't be found. The only reason that this has been thought in the past is that the same invasion report by Ugarit also seemed to cause a rise in a more warrior-like attitude in the known world. They were definitely not Minoans, because the Minoan civilisation of Crete was destroyed by the eruption of Thera, and the subsequent tsunami

[

quote]We know that these laws were being formulated during the seventh century BCE, as shown by Finkelstein and Silberman, and we also know from other sources that the Babylonian empire was the metaphorical basis of the Exodus,

Exodus is a fictional tale in it's writing, but it's referencing a real event.

Please produce some archeological evidence for this. I'm really tired of discussing this on this forum, so if you have new evidence for this please show it. Including evidence for the travel of 1.2 million people across the Sinai peninsula. I'm sure other members would be fascinated to see this evidence that no one has yet been able to show.

It was not written in the context of being metaphorical. Especially when the volcanic imagery is throughout the entire bible as a very consistent theme. Babylon was not the Basis to the story of Exodus, but it had its role.. Babylon was also the main trading partner with the Hyksos, also relied heavily on the trade with the Minoans, and when the Thera eruption happened to which was a civilization ending event, it led to their downfall and eviction.. The book you suggest is not consistent with what's actually written in the bible, or the Evidence that shows Thera having a huge impact on the region to where volcanic rock from that Eruption was found as far as the Black Sea. It is the only Event in which can match the Narrative. Especially the descriptions given..

Evidence, especially archeological evidence, please.

There are no historical records, or archeological ones, that verify that these people came as exiles from the eruption of Thera and the resulting tsunami.

This is incorrect. The exiles were most likely the Hyksos, not people from the sea. Again please read the academic citations I noted..

Also if you have some academic papers to present, please do so. Your bloodspot/wordpress blog is not a academic source.

TheJackel wrote:Read my article as I go over this subject pretty well..

Or how about you present what evidence you have here, rather than spamming us with your vanity press?

Furthermore, when you cite me a source that literally ignores the volcanic evidence, or imagery and narrative in the bible, I can't take that source seriously.

Slight problem there, namely that the bible MUST be ignored, for several reasons. Firstly, it's a source with a specific agenda. Secondly, a source is only as strong as its weakest claim, and since the wholly babble contains claims that are demonstrably total bollocks, the entire source must be discounted.

Especially one that ignores a vast amount of academic sources that demonstrate the latter of what they are trying to present.

Well, I could cite you plenty of academic sources that plainly state that Jeebus' divinity is the only reasonable explanation for the failure to find his body in the tomb, but that's clearly fucking nonsense. If you can present something more than the opinions of 'scholars', have at it.

BTW, there was no exodus.

No offense, but I consider that book almost as bad as the History Channel's Documentary on Ancient Aliens..

No offence, but your consideration and two shits will purchase for you, in pristine condition, precisely two shits.