Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

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Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#1  Postby mrjonno » Mar 13, 2016 9:58 pm

Presumably it can't be damaged , but the person is gone long before they have died?
What exactly goes to heaven?, has the soul gone ahead?, is the mind not the soul.

Next week did Jesus really suffer that much on the cross if he knew for a fact he was going to heaven ?(prove to me heaven exists and I will hammer myself up to a cross, whats a couple of days agony compared to eternal bliss and 72 virgins or is that the other one)
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#2  Postby tuco » Mar 13, 2016 10:02 pm

Jesus did not suffer on the cross .. immortal son of God cmon. He was just trolling there - acting with intent to provoke emotional reaction.
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#3  Postby mrjonno » Mar 13, 2016 10:04 pm

Jesus didnt have faith, that's the one thing he didnt need being god himself, he thought therefore he knew he was
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#4  Postby tuco » Mar 13, 2016 10:14 pm

All I can say that my superstitious coworkers, who often treated people with mentioned dementia like not equal to them, opened window so their soul could leave when they died. I was not exploring it beyond.
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#5  Postby scott1328 » Mar 13, 2016 10:17 pm

My church taught that the soul was in a kind of anesthetized state for those in comas, brain damaged, Alzheimer's, etc. when the body died the soul was released to a holding place heaven or hell until the final resurrection to face the final judgement whereupon the soul would be reunited with its body and the person would go to his/her final destination. An eternity on The New Earth or to the lake of fire for an eternity of torment.
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#6  Postby monkeyboy » Mar 13, 2016 10:28 pm

scott1328 wrote:My church taught that the soul was in a kind of anesthetized state for those in comas, brain damaged, Alzheimer's, etc. when the body died the soul was released to a holding place heaven or hell until the final resurrection to face the final judgement whereupon the soul would be reunited with its body and the person would go to his/her final destination. An eternity on The New Earth or to the lake of fire for an eternity of torment.

I could buy that for a persistent state but the effects during early stages of dementia can fluctuate between the person being quite lucid, orientated and functioning quite normally to being quite the opposite from one day to the next. It's why people refer to such things as 'having one of my senior moments' etc.
So does the soul just go for some sort of day trip or down to the shops? How do they account for short term memory going but memories from way back remaining intact for much longer? Character doesn't necessarily change straight away bit certainly functioning goes down the toilet in dribs and drabs. Do they have some explanation for this incremental, not completely one directional deterioration? Genuinely curious. I've never really explored this idea.
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#7  Postby mrjonno » Mar 13, 2016 10:40 pm

scott1328 wrote:My church taught that the soul was in a kind of anesthetized state for those in comas, brain damaged, Alzheimer's, etc. when the body died the soul was released to a holding place heaven or hell until the final resurrection to face the final judgement whereupon the soul would be reunited with its body and the person would go to his/her final destination. An eternity on The New Earth or to the lake of fire for an eternity of torment.



That sort of makes sense (as much as anything in christianity) if you are in a coma, unconcious or near a vegetable state but how does that work for major personality changes as the brain decays. There is still a clear conscious human being there it just isn't the one that was there before the illness or presumably the same person when you go to heaven. Unless the person soul is basically on drugs, not completely anesthetized but completely stoned?

To be honest alzheimers/brain injuries is very clear proof of there not being life after death as the person is partialy gone with a damaged brain so no brain no person
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#8  Postby scott1328 » Mar 13, 2016 11:34 pm

Behavior and personality changes due to brain damage were dismissed either as non existent or overstated, the person's sinful nature showing thru, or caused by demons ( for those who were in an unsaved state prior to the injury)

As my father's mother fell deeper and deeper into dementia she began to swear and say really ( to my religious aunts' ears) filthy things. These were excused as her fleshly nature usurping control from her saved soul. But since she was in a state of grace by being saved, she was in no danger of punishment.

For those Catholics, Jews and other unsaved but similar Alzheimer's patients, they were being overcome by demons and in any case destined for eternal torment. Repentance and salvation were too late for them unless they received Christ in a moment of lucidity.
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#9  Postby monkeyboy » Mar 14, 2016 12:07 am

How very Christian, forgiving and compassionate of them. I bet the baby jesus couldn't wait to be coddled in their sweet loving arms.
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#10  Postby laklak » Mar 14, 2016 2:56 am

It's lunacy, innit? The lengths they have to go to in order to keep believing their fairy tales. Mind boggling. It's something I simply cannot understand, it's a completely alien thought process, like trying to understand psychopathy or scizophrenia. Just fucking bizarre.
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Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#11  Postby felltoearth » Mar 14, 2016 5:54 am

I still haven't gotten an answer by any theist on how many souls a human chimera possesses.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#12  Postby monkeyboy » Mar 14, 2016 6:31 am

laklak wrote:It's lunacy, innit? The lengths they have to go to in order to keep believing their fairy tales. Mind boggling. It's something I simply cannot understand, it's a completely alien thought process, like trying to understand psychopathy or scizophrenia. Just fucking bizarre.

Except that psychopathy and schizophrenia are much more honest. Individuals might lack insight into their own illness and how it manifests but can generally spot someone else's presentation for what it is.
Religious beliefs aren't a uniquely individual experience. They are reinforced by others, from the naive to the mendacious spin doctor politicos, in their beliefs.
I know a couple of evangelical types that I will be quizzing on this issue of souls and dementia states.
Last edited by monkeyboy on Mar 14, 2016 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#13  Postby Arnold Layne » Mar 14, 2016 9:58 am

laklak wrote:It's lunacy, innit? The lengths they have to go to in order to keep believing their fairy tales. Mind boggling. It's something I simply cannot understand, it's a completely alien thought process, like trying to understand psychopathy or scizophrenia. Just fucking bizarre.

Nah, it's the work of the Devil. Obvious.
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#14  Postby chairman bill » Mar 14, 2016 10:20 am

How many souls does a single person have? If one half of a split-brain syndrome patient is theist, and the other atheist ...

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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#15  Postby mrjonno » Mar 14, 2016 10:57 am

scott1328 wrote:Behavior and personality changes due to brain damage were dismissed either as non existent or overstated, the person's sinful nature showing thru, or caused by demons ( for those who were in an unsaved state prior to the injury)

As my father's mother fell deeper and deeper into dementia she began to swear and say really ( to my religious aunts' ears) filthy things. These were excused as her fleshly nature usurping control from her saved soul. But since she was in a state of grace by being saved, she was in no danger of punishment.

For those Catholics, Jews and other unsaved but similar Alzheimer's patients, they were being overcome by demons and in any case destined for eternal torment. Repentance and salvation were too late for them unless they received Christ in a moment of lucidity.


I thought most 1st world christians had moved away from demons causing illness, that's fringe stuff surely?
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#16  Postby DavidMcC » Mar 14, 2016 12:49 pm

tuco wrote:Jesus did not suffer on the cross .. immortal son of God cmon. He was just trolling there - acting with intent to provoke emotional reaction.

What does being crucified by the Romans have to do with being immortal or the "son of god". Doesn't it have more to do with being a political thorn in the side of the occupiers of Palestine?
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#17  Postby mrjonno » Mar 14, 2016 8:27 pm

More to the point he knew as a fact, not faith that he was going to heaven, what's a couple of days of pain compared to that?.

Christians never mind a potentially existing jesus have suffered far more than that with faith only
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#18  Postby scott1328 » Mar 14, 2016 8:42 pm

mrjonno wrote:
scott1328 wrote:Behavior and personality changes due to brain damage were dismissed either as non existent or overstated, the person's sinful nature showing thru, or caused by demons ( for those who were in an unsaved state prior to the injury)

As my father's mother fell deeper and deeper into dementia she began to swear and say really ( to my religious aunts' ears) filthy things. These were excused as her fleshly nature usurping control from her saved soul. But since she was in a state of grace by being saved, she was in no danger of punishment.

For those Catholics, Jews and other unsaved but similar Alzheimer's patients, they were being overcome by demons and in any case destined for eternal torment. Repentance and salvation were too late for them unless they received Christ in a moment of lucidity.


I thought most 1st world christians had moved away from demons causing illness, that's fringe stuff surely?

Most have. Not so fringe in this country, though. They have taken over the right wing, and is the reason why Trump will get the GOP nomination.
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#19  Postby scott1328 » Mar 14, 2016 8:43 pm

mrjonno wrote:More to the point he knew as a fact, not faith that he was going to heaven, what's a couple of days of pain compared to that?.

Christians never mind a potentially existing jesus have suffered far more than that with faith only

Jesus: He had a really bad weekend for your sins.
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Re: Where is the soul with Alzheimers/dementia?

#20  Postby laklak » Mar 15, 2016 2:24 am

Like Weekend At Bernie's, but with a happier ending.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - Mark Twain
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that - Oscar Wilde
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