William the Conqueror and Catholicism

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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#341  Postby Nevets » Mar 12, 2020 3:44 pm

Fallible wrote:
Nevets wrote:Also there was no such country as Wales, in the post-roman period, it was Cymry


Cymry refers to the Welsh people. Cymru is the word you’re looking for. My god, you’re absolutely awful at this.


If you read "all" this post.
Which i will post "again".
It clealy states how Welsh people, also included Pagans, and Norse people, that were "also", their KINGS...Maybe start from the END of the post.

Except that it doesn't originate from the Norse Dain.


The Druids were Celtic peoples

Arising from the 18th century Romanticist movement in Britain, which glorified the ancient Celtic peoples of the Iron Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druidry_(modern)



They were also "Pagans", though they did first self identify as Christian, before going full on Catholic

Arising from the 18th century Romanticist movement in Britain, which glorified the ancient Celtic peoples of the Iron Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druidry_(modern)



King Cnut is a fine example




Also there was no such country as Wales, in the post-roman period, it was Cymry

The use of the word Cymry as a self-designation derives from the location in the post-Roman Era



Now Offas Dyke, is makes up the border of Wales and England

Offa's Dyke (Welsh: Clawdd Offa) is a large linear earthwork that roughly follows the current border between England and Wales. Offa's Dyke (Welsh: Clawdd Offa) is a large linear earthwork that roughly follows the current border between England and Wales.



It is named after King Offa




Who is from House of Incligas

The Iclingas (also Iclings or House of Icel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iclingas



Which Pagan mythology has it, was descended from house of Woden

who was in turn made to descend from Woden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iclingas


And woden, is the mythological house of Odin, in Norse mythology

Odin (/ˈoʊdɪn/;[1] from Old Norse: Óðinn, IPA: [ˈoːðinː]) is a widely revered god in Germanic mythology. Norse mythology, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin



Now Norse-Gaels, were people that first arrived in Scotland

The Norse–Gaels (Old Irish: Gall-Goídil; Irish: Gall-Ghaeil; Scottish Gaelic: Gall-Ghàidheil, 'foreigner-Gaels') were a people of mixed Gaelic and Norse ancestry and culture. They emerged in the Viking Age, when Vikings who settled in Ireland and in Scotland adopted Gaelic culture and intermarried with Gaels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse%E2%80%93Gaels


Now, the "GODODDIN" as the Norse Gaels became known, went from Scotland, mainly Lothian region, to Cymry, and they established some of the finest "welsh" poems, known to this day

The Gododdin (Welsh pronunciation: [ɡɔˈdɔðin]) were a P-Celtic-speaking Brittonic people of north-eastern Britannia, the area known as the Hen Ogledd or Old North (modern south-east Scotland and north-east England), in the sub-Roman period. Descendants of the Votadini, they are best known as the subject of the 6th-century Welsh poem Y Gododdin, which memorialises the Battle of Catraeth and is attributed to Aneirin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gododdin


The name Gododdin is the Modern Welsh form, but the name appeared in Old Welsh as Guotodin and derived from the tribal name Votadini recorded in Classical sources, such as in Greek texts from the Roman period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gododdin
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#342  Postby Svartalf » Mar 12, 2020 3:50 pm

Nevets wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:Rollo is a Latinisation of that name, and both Norman and French - being barely distinguishable - were both Latin based languages.


Spearthrower wrote:No.

Where did I say ANYTHING of the sort?

The fucking word is Latinized, you contemptibly mendacious little man.


Now you are just being silly.
Look at your copy and paste at top of your own post.

"Rollo is a Latinisation". That is what "you" said.

Copy and pasting obviously.

And it is "Latinize".
But "Latinised".

Your understanding of Latin, must be from Old English, if you think it is "Latinized".

I beg your pardon, but your command of English is obviously lacking. ST was perfectly correct in all particulars.

Why don't you go troll forums in your own native language and come back when your English has improved?
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#343  Postby Svartalf » Mar 12, 2020 3:58 pm

Spearthrower wrote:


Nevets wrote:"Rollo is a Latinisation". That is what "you" said.


Yes, that is what I said.

The word 'Rollo' is the Latinized version of Hrólfr. Hrólfr is an Old Norse word. You don't speak Old Norse. I don't speak Old Norse. No one speaks Old Norse. Consequently, the word we use today in English, using a Latin script, is Rollo.


Nevets, stop pretending you know stuff when you don't know stuff.


Actually, I do speak, or at least read, Old norse, I studied in the university because I was interested in the sagas.
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#344  Postby Nevets » Mar 12, 2020 4:02 pm

I am reposting this, because i made a hash of my initial post, forgetting to provide links, and it is being completely obfuscated. But it clearly explains how the Norse, were also mixed with the Welsh

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Except that it doesn't originate from the Norse Dain.


The Druids were Celtic peoples

Arising from the 18th century Romanticist movement in Britain, which glorified the ancient Celtic peoples of the Iron Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druidry_(modern)


They were also "Pagans", though they did first self identify as Christian, before going full on Catholic

Druidry are modern Pagan religions, although most of the earliest modern Druids identified as Christians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druidry_(modern)


King Cnut is a fine example



Also there was no such country as Wales, in the post-roman period, it was Cymry

The use of the word Cymry as a self-designation derives from the location in the post-Roman Era https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales


Now Offas Dyke, is makes up the border of Wales and England

Offa's Dyke (Welsh: Clawdd Offa) is a large linear earthwork that roughly follows the current border between England and Wales. Offa's Dyke (Welsh: Clawdd Offa) is a large linear earthwork that roughly follows the current border between England and Wales. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offa%27s_Dyke


It is named after King Offa



Who is from House of Incligas

The Iclingas (also Iclings or House of Icel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iclingas


Which Pagan mythology has it, was descended from house of Woden

who was in turn made to descend from Woden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iclingas


And woden, is the mythological house of Odin, in Norse mythology

Odin (/ˈoʊdɪn/;[1] from Old Norse: Óðinn, IPA: [ˈoːðinː]) is a widely revered god in Germanic mythology. Norse mythology, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin


Now Norse-Gaels, were people that first arrived in Scotland

The Norse–Gaels (Old Irish: Gall-Goídil; Irish: Gall-Ghaeil; Scottish Gaelic: Gall-Ghàidheil, 'foreigner-Gaels') were a people of mixed Gaelic and Norse ancestry and culture. They emerged in the Viking Age, when Vikings who settled in Ireland and in Scotland adopted Gaelic culture and intermarried with Gaels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse%E2%80%93Gaels


Now, the "GODODDIN" as the Norse Gaels became known, went from Scotland, mainly Lothian region, to Cymry, and they established some of the finest "welsh" poems, known to this day

The Gododdin (Welsh pronunciation: [ɡɔˈdɔðin]) were a P-Celtic-speaking Brittonic people of north-eastern Britannia, the area known as the Hen Ogledd or Old North (modern south-east Scotland and north-east England), in the sub-Roman period. Descendants of the Votadini, they are best known as the subject of the 6th-century Welsh poem Y Gododdin, which memorialises the Battle of Catraeth and is attributed to Aneirin.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gododdin


The name Gododdin is the Modern Welsh form, but the name appeared in Old Welsh as Guotodin and derived from the tribal name Votadini recorded in Classical sources, such as in Greek texts from the Roman period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gododdin
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#345  Postby Svartalf » Mar 12, 2020 4:03 pm

Nevets wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:This was a dead give-away by the way Nevets as the moderators will know very quickly that any characterization of me defending the Catholic Church at all, let alone vehemently, is going to be outright bullshit.

You done fucked your little trolling game up.


You defend the Catholic church when you do not provide links or sources to back your arguments against the claim that the Pope may have had at least a teeny weeny little influence in the sending of British troops during the Crusades.

Who the heck defends the Catholic Church? you're the one who keeps insisting the papacy was deeply involved in matters where it played no role.
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#346  Postby Spearthrower » Mar 12, 2020 4:15 pm

Nevets wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:

"Britain" wasn't written about by the Romans and Greeks as I've already told you and your own sources corroborate. Rather, there were many words for the British Isles, and none of them was "Britain".


Ptolomy map of Britain.."La Britanica".
That is the Britain i am referring to. The one shown on the map, with britanica on it

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-fifteenth-century-copy-of-a-ptolemy-map-of-britain-150-from-the-island-84968543.html



Yes, another example of your extensive confusion.

You're appealing to a map theoretically drawn in around 150 A.D.

Giulius Caesar invaded the British Isles in 54 B.C.

Ergo, that map was drawn 200 years after the Romans had invaded the British Isles.

Secondly, the provenance of that map (and Geographia the book it's from) is quite interesting as it was essentially lost for over 1200 years. Ptolemy, being Greek, would have annotated his map in Greek, but when the book was rediscovered in the East, it was taken to Rome in 1400 and was translated into Latin. :doh:

So, unsurprisingly, it doesn't help your argument at all, and in fact, I've already explained all this to you so many times, in such clear language that even a modestly intelligent dog would have grasped this by now.

Finally, and most amusingly given how routinely you make these absurdly ignorant errors... it's not "La Britannica" - what an embarrasingly moronic thing to have written.

It reads: Albion Insula Britanica

I don't know what your day job is, but historian is not for you, so don't give it up.
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#347  Postby Nevets » Mar 12, 2020 4:16 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Nevets wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:This was a dead give-away by the way Nevets as the moderators will know very quickly that any characterization of me defending the Catholic Church at all, let alone vehemently, is going to be outright bullshit.

You done fucked your little trolling game up.


You defend the Catholic church when you do not provide links or sources to back your arguments against the claim that the Pope may have had at least a teeny weeny little influence in the sending of British troops during the Crusades.

Who the heck defends the Catholic Church? you're the one who keeps insisting the papacy was deeply involved in matters where it played no role.


That argument is finished.

We are now on to the Gododdin.

The Gododdin are Norse people, that first turned up in Scotland, before going to Cymry, and installing Kings, such as Offa, and writing some of Cymrys greatest poetry, and literature, before becoming known as "Wales".

The name Gododdin is the Modern Welsh form, but the name appeared in Old Welsh as Guotodin and derived from the tribal name Votadini recorded in Classical sources,

The Gododdin (Welsh pronunciation: [ɡɔˈdɔðin]) were a P-Celtic-speaking Brittonic people of north-eastern Britannia, the area known as the Hen Ogledd or Old North (modern south-east Scotland and north-east England), in the sub-Roman period. Descendants of the Votadini, they are best known as the subject of the 6th-century Welsh poem Y Gododdin, which memorialises the Battle of Catraeth and is attributed to Aneirin.

The name Gododdin is the Modern Welsh form, but the name appeared in Old Welsh as Guotodin and derived from the tribal name Votadini recorded in Classical sources, such as in Greek texts from the Roman period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gododdin


They were Pagans, and Druids
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#348  Postby Sendraks » Mar 12, 2020 4:18 pm

Nevets wrote:
That argument is finished.


Because you say so.
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#349  Postby Spearthrower » Mar 12, 2020 4:19 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Actually, I do speak, or at least read, Old norse, I studied in the university because I was interested in the sagas.


Read, I can understand, but speak?
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#350  Postby Spearthrower » Mar 12, 2020 4:21 pm

But by the time of William the conqueror the name was probably closer to todays "Britain" than yesterdays Britanica, or Prydain.
As this is 2020, and i am speaking to a 2020 audience, i am hardly going to say, "the pope sent troops from Prydain".


Of course you wouldn't - well, I mean someone with a clue wouldn't - because the troops that went were English, not British... and the Pope didn't send them.

So any which way you want to distort this, it's still arse-about-tit nonsense.
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#351  Postby Spearthrower » Mar 12, 2020 4:23 pm

Nevets wrote:Is the penny dropping yet?



I'd suggest something substantially larger than a penny dropped on your head.
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#352  Postby Spearthrower » Mar 12, 2020 4:24 pm

It is just you have Romanised amnesia

Your history was replaced by Jesus


Gibber flibber whojammmafloop.

Nevets needs to find some magical way in which he's right because none of the historical evidence supports his position.
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#353  Postby Spearthrower » Mar 12, 2020 4:27 pm

Nevets wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Nevets wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:This was a dead give-away by the way Nevets as the moderators will know very quickly that any characterization of me defending the Catholic Church at all, let alone vehemently, is going to be outright bullshit.

You done fucked your little trolling game up.


You defend the Catholic church when you do not provide links or sources to back your arguments against the claim that the Pope may have had at least a teeny weeny little influence in the sending of British troops during the Crusades.


Who the heck defends the Catholic Church? you're the one who keeps insisting the papacy was deeply involved in matters where it played no role.


That argument is finished.


It wasn't an argument - it was you slinging shit in a little tantrum.

Just because you want it to go away, that doesn't mean anyone's required to oblige you.

Again, all you need to do is cite where I defended the Catholic Church and I'd look a right fool.

But if you can't, then that status resides with you.

It's also one example of many I will happily share with the mods, especially as you've repeated the same inane accusation.
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#354  Postby Nevets » Mar 12, 2020 4:33 pm

Spearthrower wrote:

Gibber flibber whojammmafloop.

Nevets needs to find some magical way in which he's right because none of the historical evidence supports his position.


In what way whatsoever does this counter my claim that the Welsh (Cymry as known at time) came under Gododdin kingship, that was Pagan and Druid, with Wales/Cymry having some of their greatest poems and literature written by the Gododdin, before becoming known as Wales?

How does this support the argument of Thomas, who says, but, the Dain could not refer to Danes, because it was a Welsh word?

Do you equally fail to see a connection between, Dain, and Odin?

Or how about Edin burgh

Old Edina
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#355  Postby Svartalf » Mar 12, 2020 4:37 pm

angelo wrote:The pope as leader of the holy Roman empire was in on to the crusades up to his elbows. And Britain was part of the Roman empire.

c'mon, we have enough trouble with nevets, you don't need to further muddy the waters.
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#356  Postby Nevets » Mar 12, 2020 4:54 pm

Svartalf wrote:
angelo wrote:The pope as leader of the holy Roman empire was in on to the crusades up to his elbows. And Britain was part of the Roman empire.

c'mon, we have enough trouble with nevets, you don't need to further muddy the waters.


I will repeat.

In what way whatsoever does this counter my claim that the Welsh (Cymry as known at time) came under Gododdin kingship, that was Pagan and Druid, with Wales/Cymry having some of their greatest poems and literature written by the Gododdin, before becoming known as Wales?

How does this support the argument of Thomas, who says, but, the Dain could not refer to Danes, because it was a Welsh word?

Do you equally fail to see a connection between, Dain, and Odin?

Or how about Edin burgh

Old Edina

If anyone fails to counter this.
Then i am claiming this debate to have been "won" by "me".

Not against one debater.
Not against two.
Not against three.
Not against four.
Not against Five.
Not against six.
Not against seven.
Not against eight.
Not against nine.
I have counted at least ten debaters in total that took part in debating me.

Ten debaters "failed" to remove the pope from the Catholic roman church that William the conqueror was at least partially involved with, even if just in denomination, and we have came to a point, where ten people are unable to counter claims any farther, nor produce any valid objections.

I now claim victory
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#357  Postby Sendraks » Mar 12, 2020 4:58 pm

Nevets wrote:I now claim victory


Because you say so.
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#358  Postby Fallible » Mar 12, 2020 5:00 pm

Nevets wrote:
Fallible wrote:
Nevets wrote:Also there was no such country as Wales, in the post-roman period, it was Cymry


Cymry refers to the Welsh people. Cymru is the word you’re looking for. My god, you’re absolutely awful at this.


If you read "all" this post.
Which i will post "again".
It clealy states how Welsh people, also included Pagans, and Norse people, that were "also", their KINGS...Maybe start from the END of the post.

Except that it doesn't originate from the Norse Dain.


The Druids were Celtic peoples

Arising from the 18th century Romanticist movement in Britain, which glorified the ancient Celtic peoples of the Iron Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druidry_(modern)



They were also "Pagans", though they did first self identify as Christian, before going full on Catholic

Arising from the 18th century Romanticist movement in Britain, which glorified the ancient Celtic peoples of the Iron Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druidry_(modern)



King Cnut is a fine example




Also there was no such country as Wales, in the post-roman period, it was Cymry

The use of the word Cymry as a self-designation derives from the location in the post-Roman Era



Now Offas Dyke, is makes up the border of Wales and England

Offa's Dyke (Welsh: Clawdd Offa) is a large linear earthwork that roughly follows the current border between England and Wales. Offa's Dyke (Welsh: Clawdd Offa) is a large linear earthwork that roughly follows the current border between England and Wales.



It is named after King Offa




Who is from House of Incligas

The Iclingas (also Iclings or House of Icel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iclingas



Which Pagan mythology has it, was descended from house of Woden

who was in turn made to descend from Woden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iclingas


And woden, is the mythological house of Odin, in Norse mythology

Odin (/ˈoʊdɪn/;[1] from Old Norse: Óðinn, IPA: [ˈoːðinː]) is a widely revered god in Germanic mythology. Norse mythology, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin



Now Norse-Gaels, were people that first arrived in Scotland

The Norse–Gaels (Old Irish: Gall-Goídil; Irish: Gall-Ghaeil; Scottish Gaelic: Gall-Ghàidheil, 'foreigner-Gaels') were a people of mixed Gaelic and Norse ancestry and culture. They emerged in the Viking Age, when Vikings who settled in Ireland and in Scotland adopted Gaelic culture and intermarried with Gaels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse%E2%80%93Gaels


Now, the "GODODDIN" as the Norse Gaels became known, went from Scotland, mainly Lothian region, to Cymry, and they established some of the finest "welsh" poems, known to this day

The Gododdin (Welsh pronunciation: [ɡɔˈdɔðin]) were a P-Celtic-speaking Brittonic people of north-eastern Britannia, the area known as the Hen Ogledd or Old North (modern south-east Scotland and north-east England), in the sub-Roman period. Descendants of the Votadini, they are best known as the subject of the 6th-century Welsh poem Y Gododdin, which memorialises the Battle of Catraeth and is attributed to Aneirin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gododdin


The name Gododdin is the Modern Welsh form, but the name appeared in Old Welsh as Guotodin and derived from the tribal name Votadini recorded in Classical sources, such as in Greek texts from the Roman period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gododdin


I’m not reading that trash again, you’re still wrong. As I said, absolutely awful
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#359  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 12, 2020 5:00 pm

Nevets wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Except that it doesn't originate from the Norse Dain.

<snip> More irrelevant nonsense, dishonest accusations and general failure to address the facts<snip>

1. Celts are not Norsemen, nor is Druidism Norse, nor is there any link between Welsh and Norse.

2. You were the one talking about Welsh and Cymry as of they were different groups of people living at the same time.

3. Mythology =/= history.

4. Mercia was not Cymru. Offa has fuck all to do with Cymru or the term Prydain.

5. The Norse-Gaels you are talking about did not arrive in Scotland until the Viking age. Scotland was already populated by Picts and other tribes at that time. The arrival of Norse-Gaels has no bearing on the term Prydain. Nor is Scotland Cymru, which is where the term originates from.

6. The last three sentences of your post are completely divorced from reality. :coffee:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#360  Postby Svartalf » Mar 12, 2020 5:02 pm

The Welsh did NOT come under Gododdin rule. Gododdin was a Breton kingdom kindom located in Northern England, more or less between York and Hadrian's wall. Thing is, there was much cultural exchange between Wales and Gododdin, as they shared a language and a civilisation.

As for Edinburgh, it's an anglicisation of the Gaelic name "Dùn Eidean" meaning Edin Castle.
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Svartalf
 
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