William the Conqueror and Catholicism

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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#361  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 12, 2020 5:05 pm

Nevets wrote:
Fallible wrote:
Nevets wrote:Also there was no such country as Wales, in the post-roman period, it was Cymry


Cymry refers to the Welsh people. Cymru is the word you’re looking for. My god, you’re absolutely awful at this.


If you read "all" this post.
Which i will post "again".

More word-salad.

Nevets wrote:It clealy states how Welsh people, also included Pagans,

No-one in this thread denied the existence of Welsh pagans. So that's yet more vapid trolling on your part.

Nevets wrote: and Norse people,

It says nothing of the sort. Nor is it relevant as the word Prydain predates the arrival of the Norse Vikings and has no relation to the Norse language.
Despite your increasingly more desperate mental gymnastic attempts.

There's no reason to repost your entire post, when
A. It does not state what you claim it states.
B. You can just link to it.
C. You can just quote the specific part that you're referring to.
D. It's filled with bullshit.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#362  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 12, 2020 5:06 pm

Svartalf wrote:The Welsh did NOT come under Gododdin rule. Gododdin was a Breton kingdom kindom located in Northern England, more or less between York and Hadrian's wall. Thing is, there was much cultural exchange between Wales and Gododdin, as they shared a language and a civilisation.

As for Edinburgh, it's an anglicisation of the Gaelic name "Dùn Eidean" meaning Edin Castle.

Nevets doesn't read the wikipedia snippets he posts.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#363  Postby Fallible » Mar 12, 2020 5:07 pm

Nevets wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
angelo wrote:The pope as leader of the holy Roman empire was in on to the crusades up to his elbows. And Britain was part of the Roman empire.

c'mon, we have enough trouble with nevets, you don't need to further muddy the waters.


I will repeat.

In what way whatsoever does this counter my claim that the Welsh (Cymry as known at time) came under Gododdin kingship, that was Pagan and Druid, with Wales/Cymry having some of their greatest poems and literature written by the Gododdin, before becoming known as Wales?

How does this support the argument of Thomas, who says, but, the Dain could not refer to Danes, because it was a Welsh word?

Do you equally fail to see a connection between, Dain, and Odin?

Or how about Edin burgh

Old Edina

If anyone fails to counter this.
Then i am claiming this debate to have been "won" by "me".

Not against one debater.
Not against two.
Not against three.
Not against four.
Not against Five.
Not against six.
Not against seven.
Not against eight.
Not against nine.
I have counted at least ten debaters in total that took part in debating me.

Ten debaters "failed" to remove the pope from the Catholic roman church that William the conqueror was at least partially involved with, even if just in denomination, and we have came to a point, where ten people are unable to counter claims any farther, nor produce any valid objections.

I now claim victory


Pack it in with the fucking quotation marks. They have a specific use, and using them the way you do just further makes you look like an ill-educated tool.

No one cares what you claim. You’re a damn idiot.
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#364  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 12, 2020 5:09 pm

Nevets wrote:I am reposting this, because i made a hash of my initial post, forgetting to provide links, and it is being completely obfuscated. But it clearly explains how the Norse, were also mixed with the Welsh

Except that they weren't, not when the word Prydain was created.

Nevets wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Except that it doesn't originate from the Norse Dain.


The Druids were Celtic peoples

A complete non-sequitur. As is the rest of your string of assertions and copy-pasted crap.
Prydain as a word predates the Norse arrival.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#365  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 12, 2020 5:18 pm

Nevets wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Nevets wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:This was a dead give-away by the way Nevets as the moderators will know very quickly that any characterization of me defending the Catholic Church at all, let alone vehemently, is going to be outright bullshit.

You done fucked your little trolling game up.


You defend the Catholic church when you do not provide links or sources to back your arguments against the claim that the Pope may have had at least a teeny weeny little influence in the sending of British troops during the Crusades.

Who the heck defends the Catholic Church? you're the one who keeps insisting the papacy was deeply involved in matters where it played no role.


That argument is finished.

Not an argument, but a baseless and dishonest accusation on your part, directed at ST.

Nevets wrote:
We are now on to the Gododdin.

Nope, we won't ignore your dishonest crap, just because you try to jump down another rabbit hole. :naughty:

Nevets wrote:
The Gododdin are Norse people, that first turned up in Scotland, before going to Cymry, and installing Kings, such as Offa, and writing some of Cymrys greatest poetry, and literature, before becoming known as "Wales".

Counterfactual nonsense, which you'd know if you'd bothered to actually read the wiki pages you quote.
1, The Gododdin were Bretons, not Norse.
2. Gododdin is the Welsh name for that Breton kingdom, they were not a Welsh people nor did they 'go to Cymru to install kings'.
3. Offa was king of Mercia, not Cymru nor Gododdin.
4. This all took place during the Anglo-Saxon period of England, not the Viking age.

Nevets wrote:
They were Pagans, and Druids

Which no-one mentioned or denied, because it's completely irrelevant.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#366  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 12, 2020 5:22 pm

Nevets wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:

Gibber flibber whojammmafloop.

Nevets needs to find some magical way in which he's right because none of the historical evidence supports his position.


In what way whatsoever does this counter my claim that the Welsh (Cymry as known at time) came under Gododdin kingship, that was Pagan and Druid, with Wales/Cymry having some of their greatest poems and literature written by the Gododdin, before becoming known as Wales?

Again:
1. This is completely irrelevant.
2. Gododdin wasn't Norse.
3. Neither Druidism nor pagan are synonymous with Norse.
4. Supposedly, not even verified, 1 single Gododdin warlord migrated to Wales and founded 1 of the several kingdoms in the area.
5. Again the Gododdin weren't Norse, but Breton and the word Prydain originates in the Welsh language, before the Viking age.

Nevets wrote:How does this support the argument of Thomas, who says, but, the Dain could not refer to Danes, because it was a Welsh word?

How does your post support your claim that you've stopped beating your wife? :coffee:

Nevets wrote:
Do you equally fail to see a connection between, Dain, and Odin?

Or how about Edin burgh

Old Edina

Have you stopped beating your wife yet Nevets? :roll:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#367  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 12, 2020 5:26 pm

Nevets wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
angelo wrote:The pope as leader of the holy Roman empire was in on to the crusades up to his elbows. And Britain was part of the Roman empire.

c'mon, we have enough trouble with nevets, you don't need to further muddy the waters.


I will repeat.

In what way whatsoever does this counter my claim that the Welsh (Cymry as known at time) came under Gododdin kingship, that was Pagan and Druid, with Wales/Cymry having some of their greatest poems and literature written by the Gododdin, before becoming known as Wales?

I will repeat, not only is your claim false, it is either way, completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.


Nevets wrote:
How does this support the argument of Thomas, who says, but, the Dain could not refer to Danes, because it was a Welsh word?

Do you equally fail to see a connection between, Dain, and Odin?

Or how about Edin burgh

Old Edina

Again, have you stopped beating your wife yet? :naughty:

Nevets wrote:
If anyone fails to counter this.
Then i am claiming this debate to have been "won" by "me".

You still don't know what a debate is I see.

Nevets wrote:
Ten debaters "failed" to remove the pope from the Catholic roman church that William the conqueror was at least partially involved with, even if just in denomination, and we have came to a point, where ten people are unable to counter claims any farther, nor produce any valid objections.

I now claim victory

You can claim victory over endless fantastic battles that take place in your mind for all I care.
Meanwhile in reality, you've consistently demonstrated to not know what you're talking about, to not actually having studied any of the relevant periods and people, to not even read the quotes you post and to resort to all manner of disingenuous rhetorical tricks.
In short, your trolling is vapid. :coffee:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#368  Postby Nevets » Mar 12, 2020 5:26 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
1. Celts are not Norsemen, nor is Druidism Norse, nor is there any link between Welsh and Norse.


That is a very simplistic argument.
We are talking about P-Celts

The Gallo-Brittonic languages, also known as the P-Celtic languages, are a subdivision of the Celtic languages of Ancient Gaul (both celtica and belgica) and Celtic Britain, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallo-Brittonic_languages


Which comes from Gaelic, which is norse

Gall Gaidhel, Gall Gaidheal, Gall Gaedil, Gall Gaedhil, Gall Gaedhel, Gall Goidel, Gall Ghaedheil etc. The modern term in Irish is Gall-Ghaeil or Gall-Ghaedheil, while the Scottish Gaelic is Gall-Ghàidheil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse%E2%80%93Gaels#Name


And this was the Gaelic that spread to Scotland, Ireland, and Wales

The Norse–Gaels often called themselves Ostmen or Austmen, meaning East-men, a name preserved in a corrupted form in the Dublin area known as Oxmantown which comes from Austmanna-tún (homestead of the Eastmen). In contrast, they called Gaels Vestmenn (West-men) (see Vestmannaeyjar and Vestmanna).

The Norse–Gaels are also sometimes called the Norse-Irish and Norse-Scots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallo-Brittonic_languages


Thomas Eshuis wrote: 2. You were the one talking about Welsh and Cymry as of they were different groups of people living at the same time.


No, that is simply how you misintepretated it.


Thomas Eshuis wrote: 4. Mercia was not Cymru. Offa has fuck all to do with Cymru or the term Prydain.


Mercia was from House of Iclingas

The Iclingas (also Iclings or House of Icel) were a dynasty of Kings of Mercia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iclingas


And house of Iclingas, is from House of Woden

who was in turn made to descend from Woden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iclingas


Woden, is, Odin, in old norse

Odin (/ˈoʊdɪn/;[1] from Old Norse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin


Thomas Eshuis wrote: 5. The Norse-Gaels you are talking about did not arrive in Scotland until the Viking age. Scotland was already populated by Picts and other tribes at that time. The arrival of Norse-Gaels has no bearing on the term Prydain. Nor is Scotland Cymru, which is where the term originates from.


The God Odin, is Norse

The Gododdin (Welsh pronunciation: [ɡɔˈdɔðin]) were a P-Celtic-speaking Brittonic people of north-eastern Britannia, the area known as the Hen Ogledd or Old North (modern south-east Scotland and north-east England), in the sub-Roman period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gododdin


We are talking a time period between 500ad and 600ad

The Angles continued to press north. In around 600 the Gododdin raised a force of about 300 men to assault the Angle stronghold of Catraeth, perhaps Catterick, North Yorkshire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gododdin




Now i am being patient with you here.
As i have already made all this quite clear.
It is perfectly comprehensible.

But it seems you are going to carry on in delusion
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#369  Postby Sendraks » Mar 12, 2020 5:31 pm

It's like someone has printed off wikipedia and is throwing random pieces at me, interspersed with non-sequitur commentary.
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#370  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 12, 2020 5:36 pm

Nevets wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
1. Celts are not Norsemen, nor is Druidism Norse, nor is there any link between Welsh and Norse.


That is a very simplistic argument.

It's not an argument, it's a statement of facts.

Nevets wrote:We are talking about P-Celts

Yet another non-sequitur.


Nevets wrote:Which comes from Gaelic, which is norse

False and your wiki quote, as usual, does not state that.

Gall Gaidhel, Gall Gaidheal, Gall Gaedil, Gall Gaedhil, Gall Gaedhel, Gall Goidel, Gall Ghaedheil etc. The modern term in Irish is Gall-Ghaeil or Gall-Ghaedheil, while the Scottish Gaelic is Gall-Ghàidheil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse%E2%80%93Gaels#Name

Gall-Gaidhel =/= Gaelic.
The quote above is specifically about Norse-Gaels.
There were Celts on the British Isles, centuries before the Norse-Gaels arrived and the Welsh language predates it as well.

And this was the Gaelic that spread to Scotland, Ireland, and Wales

More counterfactual nonsense that is not supported by your quote, which, again, talks specifically about the Norse-Gaels, not the Pictish and Welsh Gaels who'd been living there for centuries.


Nevets wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
2. You were the one talking about Welsh and Cymry as of they were different groups of people living at the same time.


No, that is simply how you misintepretated it.

Nope, literally what you posted.


Nevets wrote:4. Mercia was not Cymru. Offa has fuck all to do with Cymru or the term Prydain.

Mercia was from House of Iclingas

Repeating irrelevant data won't make it any less irrelevant Nevets.
Mercia is not Cymru.

Nevets wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote: 5. The Norse-Gaels you are talking about did not arrive in Scotland until the Viking age. Scotland was already populated by Picts and other tribes at that time. The arrival of Norse-Gaels has no bearing on the term Prydain. Nor is Scotland Cymru, which is where the term originates from.



<snip> more irrelevant data<snip>

We are talking a time period between 500ad and 600ad

And the Viking Age, which is when the Norse-Gaels arrived, wasn't until the end of the 8th century.

Nevets wrote:
The Angles continued to press north. In around 600 the Gododdin raised a force of about 300 men to assault the Angle stronghold of Catraeth, perhaps Catterick, North Yorkshire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gododdin

Again the Gododdin weren't Norse or Norse-Gaels. They were Bretons. The Norse-Gaels did not arrive in the area until 200 years later.


Nevets wrote:
Now i am being patient with you here.
As i have already made all this quite clear.
It is perfectly comprehensible.

It's also perfectly counterfactual nonsense and yet another demonstration that you don't read the sources you quote.

Nevets wrote:
But it seems you are going to carry on in delusion

Mirrors really aren't that expensive Nevets. :coffee:
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#371  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 12, 2020 5:37 pm

Sendraks wrote:It's like someone has printed off wikipedia and is throwing random pieces at me, interspersed with non-sequitur commentary.

And not having read the wiki prints before throwing them at us. :crazy:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#372  Postby Nevets » Mar 12, 2020 6:28 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:False and your wiki quote, as usual, does not state that


If you look at the headline of the wikipedia article, where it is talking about the Norse Gaelic language, you will see it is talking about Norse language. Which part in Norse Gael do you not understand, as pertaining to Norse?

The Norse–Gaels (Old Irish: Gall-Goídil; Irish: Gall-Ghaeil; Scottish Gaelic: Gall-Ghàidheil, 'foreigner-Gaels') were a people of mixed Gaelic and Norse ancestry and culture. They emerged in the Viking Age, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse%E2%80%93Gaels



Thomas Eshuis wrote:The quote above is specifically about Norse-Gaels.
There were Celts on the British Isles, centuries before the Norse-Gaels arrived and the Welsh language predates it as well.


Nonsense. There is great dispute with contemporary historiand regards to when the Welsh language was solidified. Some say around 575ad. Others as late as 9th Century

with some historians claiming that it had happened by as late as the 9th century, with a watershed moment being that proposed by linguist Kenneth H. Jackson, the Battle of Dyrham, a military battle between the West Saxons and the Britons in 577 AD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_language#History



Thomas Eshuis wrote: 5. The Norse-Gaels you are talking about did not arrive in Scotland until the Viking age. Scotland was already populated by Picts and other tribes at that time. The arrival of Norse-Gaels has no bearing on the term Prydain. Nor is Scotland Cymru, which is where the term originates from.


But this is contradicted by the Gododdin. They were already making their way to Wales 600ad

n around 600 the Gododdin raised a force of about 300 men to assault the Angle stronghold of Catraeth, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gododdin


Thomas Eshuis wrote:Again the Gododdin weren't Norse or Norse-Gaels. They were Bretons. The Norse-Gaels did not arrive in the area until 200 years later


Old Norse dates back to 200ad

The appearance of Old Norse in a written runic form first dates back to approximately ad 200–300 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Norse_orthography


Please explain, how then, if the Norse had not arrived in Din Eidyn (Gaelic for Edinburgh), between 5th and 7th century, how come the anglos had already given Edinburgh a Gaelic name by 500AD.

The city is known as Edinburgh in Scots and English, and Dùn Èideann in Scottish Gaelic, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh


The reason is, is because you keep falling for peoples changing their names.

The Norman conquest was Danish
The Viking conquest was Norse, including Danish,
And the Anglo conquest, was also Danish.

The anglo conquest happened right after the Roman Empire left Britain, and as you can see on the wikipedia map, Angles, were from Denmark

The Angles (Old English: Ængle, Engle; Latin: Angli; German: Angeln) were one of the main Germanic peoples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angles


And the invasion began around 410ad

, following the end of Roman rule in Britain around the year 410. The settlement was followed by the establishment of Anglo-Saxon kingdoms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Sax ... of_Britain
[/quote]

The Germanics/Saxons, were just foot soldiers, to the anglos

How else do you think God Odin was walking around Britain 500ad?
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#373  Postby Svartalf » Mar 12, 2020 6:32 pm

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, the Angles and the Saxons were two germanic peoples who colonized Britain at the expense of the locan Romano Breton folk, but there was no hierarchy between them, and they eventually mingled and became known as anglo saxons... if anything, it's the Angles who became subsumed by the more numerous Saxons.

and Wotan never did walk in Britain... because, you know, the Angles and Saxons were continental Germans, not Norse, so they worshipped Wotan, not Odin.
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#374  Postby SkyMutt » Mar 12, 2020 6:33 pm

Philomena Cunk would be so proud.
Serious, but not entirely serious.

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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#375  Postby Svartalf » Mar 12, 2020 6:34 pm

who that?
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#376  Postby Nevets » Mar 12, 2020 6:36 pm

Svartalf wrote:You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, the Angles and the Saxons were two germanic peoples who colonized Britain at the expense of the locan Romano Breton folk, but there was no hierarchy between them, and they eventually mingled and became known as anglo saxons... if anything, it's the Angles who became subsumed by the more numerous Saxons.

and Wotan never did walk in Britain... because, you know, the Angles and Saxons were continental Germans, not Norse, so they worshipped Wotan, not Odin.


Are you seriously saying, that this map here, which shows you were Anglo, and Saxon, was, is not in Denmark?

Are you "serious"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angles#/m ... ements.svg
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#377  Postby campermon » Mar 12, 2020 6:39 pm

Evening all!

It appears that the bar is open :beer:
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#378  Postby Svartalf » Mar 12, 2020 6:41 pm

The Angles might come from southern Jutland (which to this day is shared between denmark and germany), but I know for a fact that they spoke a continental rather than Norse language.
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#379  Postby Nevets » Mar 12, 2020 6:42 pm

Shouting LAGER LAGER LAGER LAGER LAGER LAGER LAGER shouting
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Re: William the Conqueror and Catholicism

#380  Postby Svartalf » Mar 12, 2020 6:42 pm

campermon wrote:Evening all!

It appears that the bar is open :beer:

Yep, I'll have a pint of Guinness and and Islay malt chaser.
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