Weaver wrote:

I have no double standard - I do not advocate 100% fluoridation for those countries or municipalities that don't want it. But I also don't support forcing areas that currently adjust the fluoride content of their water to be forced to stop due to science that isn't settled, and is typified by more fear-mongering than fact.

The science afaik is settled no harm comes from Fluoride if the dose is right. As I tried to point out earlier if you eliminate it as a matter of choice logically you'd have to basically boycott all processed foods and have a diet which you'd have to prepare entirely from raw ingredients. Many of which contain the chemicals which are artificially added anyway. No take away food at all as well. Since many of them also include artificial supplements too. Most of which have been "fear-mongered" by some group or other.

Weaver wrote:Yep - it's all down to which "side" wins the vote.

And in the case of the US, it's each municipality, with it's duly-elected representative government, which makes the decision and reflects the will of the voters. That's the only way it COULD work in a representative government - otherwise you'd have people refusing to pay for every single little thing they personally disagreed with, and the municipality (or greater) would be so disfunctional you wouldn't dare leave your front door.

I have no double standard - I do not advocate 100% fluoridation for those countries or municipalities that don't want it. But I also don't support forcing areas that currently adjust the fluoride content of their water to be forced to stop due to science that isn't settled, and is typified by more fear-mongering than fact.

Please come and have a word with my teetotal neighbour. Convince him that he should be paying half towards my whisky and beer. Please.

Double post.

Weaver wrote:Yep - it's all down to which "side" wins the vote.

So if your locale voted to teach creationism instead of evolution, you would support that too?

Strontium Dog wrote:

Weaver wrote:Yep - it's all down to which "side" wins the vote.

So if your locale voted to teach creationism instead of evolution, you would support that too?

No - but I have a Constitution that prohibits it. Religion =/= medication. Our municipal water systems operate under our Food and Drug Adminstration guidelines, and adjust fluoride content in accordance with those standards and municipal governmnet input - not just because some water board member thinks it's a good idea (which is the proper analogy to a local school teaching creationism).

I think some marijuana in the Tottenham water supply would help folk chill out a bit. No more riots. Who could possibly object?

Should have cremated Amy Winehouse when you had the chance - could have mellowed out the whole damn Empire!

redwhine wrote:No. I have to pay for the water supply whether I use it or not. (Your flag suggests you are not in England. Perhaps you don't know about our Water Rates...

If you do not have a meter you will pay a set rate for your water based on the rateable value (RV) of your home in England and Wales or your council tax band if you live in Scotland. These rates also include a standing charge to cover customer services such as billing.

http://www.water-guide.org.uk/rates.html )

So if the alternative source cost the same, as in your suggested scenario, then I would have to pay twice as much.

Ah I didn't realize that there wasn't an option not to pay. Seems rather odd really. And a shame.

Scot Dutchy wrote:Amazingly in Ireland we dont pay for water. It is free. I think it because there is so much of the stuff there.

Yes! It is most awesome.

Commercial and industrial businesses do pay however.

Scot Dutchy wrote:Chlorine or fluoride plays no part in the process.

How in the shite does it stay clean while in transit?

In the UK the water charges also pays for the storm-water drainage and sewerage collection. You can't have one without the other AFAIK.

econ41 wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote: Chlorine or fluoride plays no part in the process..

Do they use ozone for disinfection?

If not what do they use?

Nice to hear from you again.

Fluoride was in 1973 forbidden.
Since 2005 chlorine has been forbidden. Yes ozon is being used along with ultra violet light.

The newer process stations are using silver peroxide to disinfect new pipes and micro filters used to filter the river water before it is pumped onto the dunes. It stays three months in the dunes before being cleaned and de-chalked. It is said for all in the summer time is tap water purer than bottled water!

There are no lead pipes any where in the system.
Sorry I cant find any English language articles.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinkwater

I did find this paper in English:

The Dutch secret: how to provide safe drinking water without chlorine in the Netherlands]

Scot Dutchy wrote:It is said for all in the summer time is tap water purer than bottled water!

Bottled water isn't very pure at all.

HughMcB wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:It is said for all in the summer time is tap water purer than bottled water!

Bottled water isn't very pure at all.

Why do people buy it then. I never buy it.

Scot Dutchy wrote:

HughMcB wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:It is said for all in the summer time is tap water purer than bottled water!

Bottled water isn't very pure at all.

Why do people buy it then. I never buy it.

Because people are fucking retarded. Why do people buy cosmetics? Neither are very well regulated (if at all).

A whole lot of bottled water is either far sub-standard to tap water or is in fact, just tap water.

Scot Dutchy wrote:

econ41 wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote: Chlorine or fluoride plays no part in the process..

Do they use ozone for disinfection?

If not what do they use?

Nice to hear from you again....

The water supply engineer in me - couldn't resist the thread even though it is a Galaxian OP. I remember taking a leading part in discussions when this topic was raised back on RDNet. Nothing has changed AFAICS.

Scot Dutchy wrote:Fluoride was in 1973 forbidden.
Since 2005 chlorine has been forbidden. Yes ozon is being used along with ultra violet light.

The newer process stations are using silver peroxide to disinfect new pipes and micro filters used to filter the river water before it is pumped onto the dunes. It stays three months in the dunes before being cleaned and de-chalked. It is said for all in the summer time is tap water purer than bottled water!...

It has been interesting for me to see the progressive upgrading of standards. always with the risk assessment standing in competition with the availability/practicality of developing technologies. For example the use of chlorine for water supply disinfection has without doubt kept orders of magnitude more people alive than the relatively small numbers affected by the secondary by-products. But now ozonation and UV are available as preferred technologies - and, yes, I am aware of some European uses going back best part of 100 years.

Scot Dutchy wrote:...There are no lead pipes any where in the system.
Sorry I cant find any English language articles....

my father worked for a plumbing pipes and fittings manufacturer - biggest in the UK at the time. 1930(?) till he retired 1977(?). They pioneered introduction of copper pipes for water supply plumbing inside buildings - early 1930's. There were concerns at the time about the toxicity of copper.

Guess what the preferred domestic plumbing material was before copper - which copper was to replace. Yes - lead!

Scot Dutchy wrote:...http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinkwater

I did find this paper in English:

The Dutch secret: how to provide safe drinking water without chlorine in the Netherlands]

...thanks.

"There's a sucker born every minute" P.T Barnum.
"And it seems many of them migrate to RatSkep" Galaxian

Despite the ethical outrage of compulsory medication. Despite all the evidence that fluoride is a toxin. Despite the fact that tooth decay rates in non-fluoridated countries mirror those of fluoridated ones.
We have here those who say "Nanny know best." And will accept whatever Nanny orders, because they don't want to upset Nanny. They are the same ones who believe Jesus rose on the 3rd day & went up to Heaven. The same ones who called syphilis "The French Disease". The same who agreed with Bruno being burnt at the stake & that the Universe goes around the Earth. The same ones who said that Saddam has WMD & planned 9/11 with Osama. The same ones who said invasion & war are great! (remember the 80+% approval rating of Bush?) All because Nanny said so, & they sooo love to fit in & not rock the boat.
But decade by decade, century by century, they or their descendents gradually see the light, & accept the facts & the truth. Then they brag..."Oh, I always KNEW that...never believed what the scoundrels Bush & Cheney claimed!" Then it's funny how the believers dropped from 80+% to 30-%. Were the others abducted by aliens?

So ANYTHING we write, any links we make, any rational discourse we offer is a waste of time, 'cause "Nanny knows best". Then eventually, in years to come...IF IT IS NOT TOO LATE BY THEN...these devotees will flip & go with the flow, & fit in, & say "I always KNEW fluoride is bad for you & that anyway it is an infringement of human rights & personal free choice"
Meanwhile the enlightened such as Galaxian, Redwhine, & Strontium (about 37% as I write) have to "suffer the slings & arrows of outrageous" silly posts from those not so blessed.
Here is a graph from the World Health Organization, proving that fluoride has nothing to do with reduced dental decay in western countries. And even if it did, the ethical matter of free choice would still over-ride all other considerations:
http://www.fluoridealert.org/who-dmft.htm (also a table in the article)

Here's a graph showing that the introduction (& later the withdrawal) of fluoride in New Zealand had no effect on the DMFT reduction rate.

A statement by Dr. Paul Connett: http://www.fluoridealert.org/fluoride-statement.htm

This fraud has been foisted onto us without even medical trials, by paid agents of industry. Still trusting?

OP = credulous, ignorant gibbering.

Galaxian. EVERYTHING is a toxin and in high enough doses Kills you.

Slinging mud at your detractors with piles upon piles of ridiculous assertions does not make you in a better position.

You cannot convince people by insulting them, calling them sheeple, asking them to become enlightened and joining up with your grand discovery and becoming one of the blessed knowing ones.

Just make your arguments, show your evidence, stop with the hysterical conspiracy madness. It would make it so much easier to read and digest your posts if you didn't try to sound like such a damned martyr.

Edit: Correcting typo's

I wish I was smart.

The_Metatron wrote:I wish I was smart.

It isn't good to be smart. Betas and Alphas are smart but they have to work too hard. I'm glad I'm a Gamma.